Okay, so it has been just a bit over ten days, but it's now time to report back what people said about dating "One at a Time." Did they say yes they would do it? Did they say no? What reasons did they give if they said no? A good idea may not be a good idea if no one is really interested in following it.
It's your turn--let's see the numbers.
22 comments:
Basically, they didn't think it was possible. And many were resigned and didn't particularly care.
Most of mine divided by whether they were female or male. The males couldn't see the point in it and the females said yes but it is not going to happen.
I don't understand what exactly you're asking people to do. Please explain.
(yes, I read the original post)
G,
The "One at a Time" in the "assignment" referred to the idea that no one, not shadchanim, not parents and not singles, of either sex, would keep a list of possible future shidduchim. You would accept one shidduch and not listen in any way to any information about another shidduch. My reasoning was that if you had no idea if another shidduch might be red for you, you would pay attention more closely to the person you were dating right now. This is more of a male problem. When boys know that they have 17 girls on their list, why should they devote the necessary time and effort to the present girl--there is always another one. This is a poor way to look for a spouse.
I was trying to find out if people would agree to sign a pledge, if someone else presented it to them, that would say they date only "One at a Time" and that they are not maskim to having a list nor to having their name on a list.
Sorry, but I have to disagree. The bottom line, I get set up with more people than I can possibly go out with. I'm not trying to brag, that's just the way it is.
Most suggestions are way of base. So I'm supposed to tell a shadchan on Monday that I can't listen to their suggestion because on Sunday a different shadchan called with another shidduch on Sunday? Even though I haven't had a chance to look into it?
Or what about times when I'm taking a break from dating? (finals, studying for the bar exam, etc) I'm not supposed to listen to suggestions? I'm supposed to go out with the first girl that gets suggested?
I'm not saying that a guy should be taking down names even though he's been seeing someone for 3 weeks. But there's nothing wrong with taking down a name and some info.
If the custom was for the shadchan to contact the girl first, then it would be girls that have lists.
The One at at a Time idea is a perfect recipe for terrible dates and wasting a lot of time.
I asked my sisters first and after that I didn't ask anyone else. I didn't even know that they even knew the kinds of words they used in talking about lists. i kind of feel like classmate-wearing-yarmulka that it's a practical thing to have a list. My sisters say that it is insulting to a girl. one sister's answer to classmate when he said that if a shadchan brought the shidduch to the girl first then girls would have a list was to say that then the boys would be feeling insulted. They think that any process that has one part feeling insulted is not a good thing. They would sign the pledge. I still don't think I would.
Insult? Where's the insult? How is it insulting to a a girl if she's on some guy's list. A shadchan red a shidduch to a guy, guy isn't immediately availably, guy writes down girl's name, and when he's ready to go out he calls back the shadchan who then finds out if the girl is interested and available.
What's the big deal?
If the custom was to go to the girl first, i wouldn't be insulted if girls had lists.
What Classmate says jives with what Mickey Mouse says on my blog: that the reason guys have lists is because they get asked first.
It's a good point, I think.
Hmm, a thought is jumbling around in my mind, so bear with me. The men think that lists are both practical and the inevitable outcome of being the one who the shidduch is red to first. Women don't seem to like the idea of lists. Is it possible that what women actually don't like is that the men get to be asked first? That antipathy to the list is actually antipathy to who gets to have the list because they come first?
Just a thought, but perhaps what needs to be discussed is the order of shidduch redding?
You're going to have to go to one side first. If I were writing the rules, I'd rather it go to the girl first. It's easier, and odds are, it's at least a decent idea if one side looked into it and said yes.
On the other hand, I get suggestions all the time, and about 80% of them aren't worth a date. They're just bad ideas.
Classmate,
It's nice to see someone say "ladies first." Just a point to clarify though. Are you saying that you would rather the girls have to be the ones to wade through the 80% of bad ideas, thus making it easier on the guys? Is this a "get me out from under the garbage" response? Or are you suggesting that girls will find it easier to handle the suggestions and find the "good" ones easier?
--Is this a "get me out from under the garbage" response?
Saw this coming. So if the guy takes names it's wrong, and if he would prefer the young ladies out there take names...he's also wrong?
Nice.
The whole discussion is making somethhing out of nothing.
G,
Sorry, but you took my words wrong. If Classmate meant that he finds the process onerous and he would have no problem letting someone else have to deal with it,or letting someone else share in the burden, that is one thing. If he actually believes that females will be better able to handle the initial "garbage," that is another. In no way did I mean to imply that he is trying to "dump" his "problem" on someone else just to be rid of it. This is not one of those "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situations.
Frankly I think Classmate may be right--since redding shidduchim to the men first has not resulted in a streamlined, efficient, successful method for making shidduchim, let's try redding to the girls first and see if it changes things.
I've got no idea if the girls would be better sorting through the garbage. Perhaps there would be more dates, I imagine girls are less picky than guys, and would be more willing to say yes to a suggestion without having to be pushed because the other side already said yes.
Classmate,
I'm interested in your statement "I imagine girls are less picky than guys, and would be more willing to say yes to a suggestion without having to be pushed..." I like having clear definitions when I "speak" with someone to make sure we are both discussing the same thing. What do you define "picky" as? Is being "less picky" a good trait or a bad trait when it comes to dating and shidduchim?
I like where this discussion is going but could I break in a minute and report two comments I got on the "One at a Time" question. The first comment was that this is not a problem that is going to be solved from the bottom up but needs to be solved from the top down. Those in authority need to make this suggestion or state it as a rule. The second comment was that the whole list thing is a symptom of a bigger problem or disease we have and that you don't cure symptoms, you have to cure the disease.
Picky can be good or bad. Someone who is less picky has a broader range of types of people they are willing to go out with. That will lead to more dates, but probably more frustration as well as they go out with lots of people that they're not going to be interested in marrying.
The first comment was that this is not a problem that is going to be solved from the bottom up but needs to be solved from the top down. Those in authority need to make this suggestion or state it as a rule.
Pardon my sarcasm, but pleeeese.
Name the last problem affecting the Orthodox community that was solve from the top down. You think that if the Rabbonim issued dating guidelines people would actually listen? Odds are the guidelines will end up right next to wedding guidelines from several years ago.
There is no leadership people. You want something done, start at the grassroots level and work your way up.
Classmate,
You're kind of new to this blog so you may not know that I tend to pick up on comments that are made and then riff with them. Your comment on the leadership problem in Klal is already fomenting into a posting for a bit later. So is your comment on the frustrations of dating people whom you are not going to be interested in marrying.
Let me just say this in preview. One, some of those unfathomable "rules" of dating are indeed from the top down: Roshei HaYeshiva who affect hundreds of boys, well-known organizations which instruct their volunteer shadchanim on how they want things done, instances where well known poskim have commented on how they believe things should be done.
You are also right that it takes grassroots activism to get some things changed. Until there was not a grassroots movement the aguna problem was swept under the rug. And yes, some of the aguna problem solutions which do require some rabbinic "guidelines" to be enacted have not happened.
Why is it that Brooklyn, the largest observant Jewish community anywhere, does not have a kosher eruv accepted by all? "Pure" halachic issues or is this a case of warring rabbanic feudal overlords each with their own turf to defend? If 50,00 or 100,000 or yes, even 25,000 frum Jews presented a signed petition that either the rabbanim get their acts together or the community will build its own eruv, the next sound you hear would be of entrenched positions falling. Just a thought--in most cases no one actually "elects" those in position of authority for Klal--they are kind of self-selected.
Thanks for getting me thinking--stay tuned!
Sigh, but first you would have to get 25,000 people in Bklyn to sign that petition. Try even getting 2500 to sign a petition. We like to kvetch a lot but we're not big on doing.
Could we find another word to use beside picky? It sounds so negative. So does choosy. Any suggestions?
Well you could say "particular" but that might get you labeled "finicky." I vote for "discernment." You are men and women of discernment. The word always has a positive connotation and is associated with knowing what the finer things in life are. It also has the advantage that half the people you tell it to won't have any idea what it means but it sounds really spiffy so they'll assume you are special people.
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