Thursday, December 6, 2007

Stuck in a Rut--The Shidduch Time Warp

I'm teaching resume writing and interviewing techniques to my students this week and next. I make it a point to tell them that under work experience they are to put only those jobs held since after high school. And school honors refer only to college honors, not to high school. Some of the boys balk at this. "I was valedictorian" one tells me. "I received honors in math and science" another tells me. I fail to be impressed. These students are all seniors in college. It is long past the time to put high school behind them.

It's not just my students though. A number of people in Klal seem to be stuck in the same time warp the students are. You are a girl and you come back from seminary. Within the year these girls usually are well into the shidduch parsha. Boys get an extra year or two before they are thrown into the lion's den. They're newbies to the scene and the questions asked are mostly about what "was" rather than what "is." "What camps did he/she go to?" "What elementary school did he/she attend?" "What high school did he/she attend?" "What seminary did she attend?" "What yeshiva in Israel did he go to?"

Now fast forward 5 or 6 years. What questions are being asked about singles? I'll save the typing time--just read the questions in the paragraph above. These singles, adults all of them, are still being "investigated" using information that is years old. Just what possible significance is the camp you went to when you were 12 when it comes to shidduchim at this stage? What does what you did in high school have to do with the person you are today, in the present?

Now fast forward a few more years. And yes, you guessed it, people are still asking the camp/high school/seminary/yeshiva questions. "It's important" I am told. Okay, so tell me why? Teenagers are a sub-species all on their own. Saying "teenager" and "adult" in the same breath is a linguistic solecism. In your mid to late twenties you are considered by virtually everyone to be fully adult. Everyone, it seems, but those who are involved in shidduchim--parents, shadchanim, interested other singles and anyone who has an interest in seeing that shidduchim are made. They still treat adults like teenagers.

I've tried to figure out why these questions persist despite the time gap from when the activities being asked about took place to now. The reasons I keep coming up with aren't very positive ones. People are too lazy to think of anything else to ask that might be more cogent to the single's present condition. People have no idea what questions they should be asking about singles who aren't brand new to the parsha any longer. People don't give singles any credit for growing and changing, for evolving to fit their adult status. People like to live in the past, where they see things as having been "simpler." People may, themselves, not care about the answers to these questions, but they know that others will and they need to know the answers to red a shidduch.

Frankly, a number of the frum communities in Klal have no idea what to do with the adult singles in their midst. They don't/didn't expect them to be there. These communities have one "tried and true" shidduch methodology and they apply it to everyone. "It's got to work at some point," they reason. Wrong. There is an infantalizing of many of the adult singles. The restrictions placed on them are more appropriate for 18-year-olds with brand new driver's licences then they are to responsible working adults in their 20's. But, these communities reason, if the restrictions don't remain in place "it will hurt for shidduchim." What hooey. For far too many in these communities adult singles are as Shakespeare said: "Neither fish, nor fowl, nor good red meat."

Some of these adult singles still live at home; it would not be considered seemly for them to be living on their own. It doesn't fit the image these communities want to project. Others live with roommates or on their own. And oh the head shaking that goes on about this. Age is whispered about as if there were some sin in growing older. Are only married people allowed to grow older, grow wiser, change?

I'll give these communities credit for sincerely wanting single adults to get married. That is about all the credit I can give them. They have no real, practical idea about how to handle the single adults in their midsts, and it shows.

The more modern of the frum communities have tried to address this issue with varying degrees of success. At least those communities recognize that they have adults in their midst. Shuls actively promote acceptable social events at which singles can meet each other, or at least be in the same location together. Singles in these communities are more proactive on their own behalf. They, too, promote occasions for meeting other singles. I have never had one of these more "modern" frum singles every ask me about what camp a prospective date went to. None of them ask me about the names of seminaries. These singles want to know what a date is involved in now. They are living in the present.

Nor is it only the communities as general entities that are at fault. Many adult singles in the frummer communities help promulgate the actions of the outer community. They don't want to think of themselves as fully adult but unmarried. They look at this as some kind of failure on their part. And many are too afraid to rock the boat because they, too, believe "it will hurt for a shidduch."

What's the answer? There is no easy answer. The frummer communities are going to have to bite the bullet and admit that the methods they use for 19 year olds aren't successful with adult singles. They will have to concede that their approach is not working for these adult singles. They will need to--gasp--provide socialization venues for these adult singles, mixed socialization venues.

I received two interesting notices of lectures that were being given. Actually it was the same lecture that was being given, but being given twice, on dating advice if you are over 21. One was for male young adults; the other was for female young adults. A neighbor's daughter attended the one for females. She reported back to me that all the people there were in their mid to late 20s and into their 30s. A student told me that the male lecture had the same age range. I asked a rebbetzin I am acquainted with, who deals in mostly yeshivish shidduchim, why these two lectures could not be combined. "We are worried about inappropriate behavior," she answered. I was puzzled. "What kind of inappropriate behavior could there be at a lecture?" I asked. "The boys might look too much at the girls," she answered. "We wanted them to be able to concentrate on the content of the lecture rather then on the audience members."

Let me see if I have this straight. You provide a lecture with advice on how to get a date so that you can find a spouse. Presumably the two people are who are going to be doing the dating are going to look at each other. In the privacy of a date. Looking a lot. But they can't look at each other in public with hundreds of other people around. Why? I guess because to gain the privilege of looking you first have to ask "What camp did he/she go to?" or "What yeshiva/seminary did he/she go to?"

17 comments:

Anonymous said...

Why not come straight out and say it. It is the yeshivishe olam that treats its older singles wrong. This group considers camp and seminary and yeshiva as yichus. The wrong yichus and you don't get the date. As long as that is the criteria they won't change the method.

Anonymous said...

You really think that sticking all the adult singles into a room is going to change things? It doesn't seem to work very well for the modern groups so why should it work better for the frummer groups? Just how many shidduchim do you think a frum singles event would make? Probably not many.

Anonymous said...

Sorry but where someone went to yeshiva does tell something important about that person. Same for seminary. It shows who is a serious learner and who was just fooling around. And that doesn't matter how old the person is. People don't change there basic nature just because they are older. And if someone is a BT that should be known to.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for not calling us the dreaded older singles. I think adult single sounds much better. Doesn't change my situation but it doesn't make me feel my grandmother's age either. but I agree that the questions that work for a 19 year old should not be the questions for me in my middle 20s. Don't know about the mixed singles things though. Can't really see the yeshivas in Brooklyn allowing it no matter how many shidduchim might be made.

Anonymous said...

Know what's strange? No one ever asked whether I can cook or sew on a button or know how to clean. No one ever asked if I can balance a checkbook or know how to shop smart. No one ever asked if I know anything about kids. But they all ask about where I went to sem. Makes me wonder just what these people think marriage is about.

Anonymous said...

Anyone who is judging me for a shidduch based on where I went to sem is in for a real surprise. That seminary was picked by my parents and my high school for a 17 year old girl. I am not that girl any more. Some of the things I want now are not the things I wanted then.

Anonymous said...

Why should asking about seminary and yeshiva be any different then asking what college someone went to? I don't see the big deal no matter what age a person is.

Anonymous said...

The big deal is because asking for the name of the college is just checking that someone did go to college. Mostly the name is not important. But asking for the name of the yeshiva or for the seminary is supposed to tell all kinds of important things about a person. And it doesn't really. Going to BJJ makes me a BJJ person. Going to Yale doesn't make me a Yale person. It's screwy logic.

G said...

Excellent thoughts, this issue does not get nearly the "air time" it should.

Anon-
It's not a matter of the question not being relevant or that it should not be asked at all. It is making sure to find out more than just data point like information about a person. Yes, the types of questions mentioned can be of value and tell something about a person, however they should not eliminate the need to find out about the person today.

"People don't change there basic nature just because they are older"

Is that a fact? Should I take this to mean that you believe that who one is upon their graduation from high school is who they will be for duration of their days?

Anonymous said...

I remember that high school person and I'm sure happy I'm not him anymore. That person did everything that everyone told him to do without thinking about whether it was right or wrong or good or bad for him. I sure like the person I am today much better. I wish people would look at who I am and not at who I might have been years ago.

Anonymous said...

You've got a better chance of winning the lottery then of getting the yeshivish world to admit they are wrong about how they treat adult singles. And if you want to know your chances of winning the lottery, they're astronomical not in your favor. It's my world but I am so not loving it now. When I hit past my mid 20s someone quietly asked my mother if I was "normal" or if there was a problem with my liking girls. Would rather they just ask what camp I went to.

Anonymous said...

I asked my rebbi why the questions get asked even with older singles. Why don't we change the questions for everyone since they are kind of stupid. He said to me that basically young people don't know what is really important to ask so the community tells them. hashkofah is important for a shidduch. If someone is too young to ask the right questions then what are they doing looking to get married?!!

Anonymous said...

One sister of mine is 30 and another 21 and both are looking to get married. The same questions get asked about both of them. When my older sister hears they are still asking about seminary she doesn't want to hear about the shidduch. They aren't looking for her. Even the 21 year old doesn't like the question. She is graduating college now and what does seminary have to do with anything?

Anonymous said...

everyone knows that you don't treat new seedlings the same way you treat fully grown plants. They need different care, different fertilizer. You coddle seedlings. Mature plants can pretty much take care of themselves if you let them. The yeshivish people treat all their plants exactly the same, and some don't grow right because of that.

Bad4shidduchim(in exile) said...

Aw c'mon, first anonymous. The seminary a person goes to doesn't say anything about their "nature". It says something about who accepted them. I ended up in a seminary I didn't even apply to, because I was all around rejected but wanted to get to Israel for a year. If you don't know where I applied or why I ended up where I did, how can you make conjectures about my "nature"?

If you want to find out about my "nature" why don't you go out on a date with me and ask?

Anonymous said...

Dating and asking questions on the date instead of asking all the questions before the date even takes place? Surely you jest!

Anonymous said...

If you want less "chepping" and more shalom bais then get people married later at a mature age. Babies shouldn't be raising babies. Marriage is for adults--legalized sex is for those too immature to control themselves otherwise.