I am not attesting to the facts in the story I'm about to repeat. Whether or not the details are as reported is almost irrelevant. The fact that such a story could be making the rounds now is enough of a concern. What went viral over Shabbos in my community is the following story.
There was a wedding that took place up in Monsey. Two men were called up to be edei chupah. When they got up to the chuppah, the mesader kiddushin asked them both to take out their cell phones. He examined them and then told one of the men that he had no filter on his phone and therefore was a posul eid and could not be used as a witness for the chupah.
Let us assume that this story is true as it was reported. Has our community, or at least parts of it, lost its mind?! Phone filters as the final determiner as to whether or not someone is frum enough to participate in Jewish ceremonial life?
Hmmm, I wonder if the mesader kiddushin also checked the cell phones of the choson and the fathers of the choson and kallah. Would he have refused to be mesader kidushin for this couple if a filter had been missing from one of their phones? Wouldn't bet against it.
Showing posts with label dating/marriage/shidduchim. Show all posts
Showing posts with label dating/marriage/shidduchim. Show all posts
Sunday, July 15, 2012
Sunday, June 3, 2012
Patience
Wisdom has long held that patience is a virtue. As the saying goes, "All good things come to those who wait." Yes, patience and waiting go together. Unfortunately, the word "patience" may soon be listed in our dictionaries as archaic, no longer in use.
We live now in a world that gives highest priority to things that are "instant." Waiting for anything is seen as annoying and out of sync with the way things should be. When we hit the "on" switch for any of the electronic items we own, we expect immediate results. Even a few seconds wait is intolerable. This carries over to other aspects of our lives as well.
I asked the manager at one of our local supermarkets which is the bigger seller: traditional, long-cooking (relatively speaking that is) oatmeal or what is sold as instant oatmeal. He answered that more instant oatmeal is sold. What is the actual time difference between the two items? Give or take, 5-7 minutes. I asked the manager why he thought the instant oatmeal sold more. Yup, his answer included the word "patience." Why stand over a stove and wait for the old fashioned oats to cook when you can nuke the instant variety in a minute? He added that "instant" varieties of just about every food type were big sellers--frozen waffles, pancakes and french toast, 'instant' mashed potato flakes, pre-cooked just about anything, frozen ready-cooked dinners etc..
Why are there more and more ready-prepared, take-home food outlets? A whole lot of people with no patience for the slowness of having to cook food from start to finish at home. Why are there more and more restaurants? Same reason.
Even our language exhibits signs of the impatience that people feel today. Texting and twittering capitalize on this impatience by "requiring" a foreshortened form of English. And because that foreshortened English is so convenient, users look at standard English as somehow backwards and too oldfashioned to spend time in learning well.
It used to be that patience was a sign of maturity, of being a "grown up." Little children were always asking "Are we there yet?!" Adults were supposed to know better, to have developed patience. Unfortunately, today it is both adults and children who whine "Are we there yet?!"
Watch some drivers at a red light and you see this impatience. They are tapping the steering wheel, texting or speaking on their cellphones, eating a snack, talking to someone in the car, fiddling with the knobs on the dashboard and turning their head from side to side to see what is going on outside of the car, and sometimes all at the same time.
Look at some of the "rules" in place for shidduch dating and you see impatience perfectly illustrated. By the fifth or sixth date a couple is either engaged or they are over. Some of those involved in making shidduchim have even foreshortened this time requirement. For them, if you don't know for sure that a prospective shidduch is going somewhere by the the third or fourth date, it's over. And some of this shidduch impatience also applies to how long any individual date may last for. Most of the "laws" I've seen say a maximum of two hours for a date. When I read that requirement I really laughed. Here in NY, getting from a point in one part of the city to a point in another part can easily take you one hour in each direction. So basically dating couples don't need to go anywhere but just spend the time inside of a car? Impatience personified.
Yes, I know that today's world also presents us with a lot more to do in those few hours of the day there are to do them. Yes, I know that lots of people are multi-tasking inundated. Yes, there may be certain situations where patience is just not possible. But those same situations are made worse when we don't have the patience to deal with them.
When I mentioned the idea for this posting to someone, they countered with a different old saying: "The race goes to the swift." Patience is an impediment in getting to where you have to go. A different old saying by Aesop came to the rescue: "Slow and steady wins the race." But hey, don't take my word for it--read what some others have said about the value of patience.
Patience and perseverance have a magical effect before which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish. ~John Quincy Adams
How poor are they that have not patience!
What wound did ever heal but by degrees?
~William Shakespeare, Othello, 1604
A handful of patience is worth more than a bushel of brains.
~Dutch Proverb
Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience.
~George-Louis de Buffon
One moment of patience may ward off great disaster. One moment of impatience may ruin a whole life. ~Chinese Proverb
He that can have PATIENCE can have what he will.
~Benjamin Franklin
It is not necessary for all men to be great in action. The greatest and sublimest power is often simple patience.
~Horace Bushnell
A handful of patience is worth more than a bushel of brains.
~Cato the Elder
To end off, let me repeat what many a parent has spoken to their children: Rome wasn't built in a day.
We live now in a world that gives highest priority to things that are "instant." Waiting for anything is seen as annoying and out of sync with the way things should be. When we hit the "on" switch for any of the electronic items we own, we expect immediate results. Even a few seconds wait is intolerable. This carries over to other aspects of our lives as well.
I asked the manager at one of our local supermarkets which is the bigger seller: traditional, long-cooking (relatively speaking that is) oatmeal or what is sold as instant oatmeal. He answered that more instant oatmeal is sold. What is the actual time difference between the two items? Give or take, 5-7 minutes. I asked the manager why he thought the instant oatmeal sold more. Yup, his answer included the word "patience." Why stand over a stove and wait for the old fashioned oats to cook when you can nuke the instant variety in a minute? He added that "instant" varieties of just about every food type were big sellers--frozen waffles, pancakes and french toast, 'instant' mashed potato flakes, pre-cooked just about anything, frozen ready-cooked dinners etc..
Why are there more and more ready-prepared, take-home food outlets? A whole lot of people with no patience for the slowness of having to cook food from start to finish at home. Why are there more and more restaurants? Same reason.
Even our language exhibits signs of the impatience that people feel today. Texting and twittering capitalize on this impatience by "requiring" a foreshortened form of English. And because that foreshortened English is so convenient, users look at standard English as somehow backwards and too oldfashioned to spend time in learning well.
It used to be that patience was a sign of maturity, of being a "grown up." Little children were always asking "Are we there yet?!" Adults were supposed to know better, to have developed patience. Unfortunately, today it is both adults and children who whine "Are we there yet?!"
Watch some drivers at a red light and you see this impatience. They are tapping the steering wheel, texting or speaking on their cellphones, eating a snack, talking to someone in the car, fiddling with the knobs on the dashboard and turning their head from side to side to see what is going on outside of the car, and sometimes all at the same time.
Look at some of the "rules" in place for shidduch dating and you see impatience perfectly illustrated. By the fifth or sixth date a couple is either engaged or they are over. Some of those involved in making shidduchim have even foreshortened this time requirement. For them, if you don't know for sure that a prospective shidduch is going somewhere by the the third or fourth date, it's over. And some of this shidduch impatience also applies to how long any individual date may last for. Most of the "laws" I've seen say a maximum of two hours for a date. When I read that requirement I really laughed. Here in NY, getting from a point in one part of the city to a point in another part can easily take you one hour in each direction. So basically dating couples don't need to go anywhere but just spend the time inside of a car? Impatience personified.
Yes, I know that today's world also presents us with a lot more to do in those few hours of the day there are to do them. Yes, I know that lots of people are multi-tasking inundated. Yes, there may be certain situations where patience is just not possible. But those same situations are made worse when we don't have the patience to deal with them.
When I mentioned the idea for this posting to someone, they countered with a different old saying: "The race goes to the swift." Patience is an impediment in getting to where you have to go. A different old saying by Aesop came to the rescue: "Slow and steady wins the race." But hey, don't take my word for it--read what some others have said about the value of patience.
Patience and perseverance have a magical effect before which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish. ~John Quincy Adams
How poor are they that have not patience!
What wound did ever heal but by degrees?
~William Shakespeare, Othello, 1604
A handful of patience is worth more than a bushel of brains.
~Dutch Proverb
Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience.
~George-Louis de Buffon
One moment of patience may ward off great disaster. One moment of impatience may ruin a whole life. ~Chinese Proverb
He that can have PATIENCE can have what he will.
~Benjamin Franklin
It is not necessary for all men to be great in action. The greatest and sublimest power is often simple patience.
~Horace Bushnell
A handful of patience is worth more than a bushel of brains.
~Cato the Elder
To end off, let me repeat what many a parent has spoken to their children: Rome wasn't built in a day.
Monday, March 26, 2012
As long as We're Discussing Noses
The link below is to an article that ran in the New York Times this past summer, discussing a study linking mental illness with rhinoplasty.
Just one excerpt from the article: "About one in three people seeking rhinoplasty — commonly called a nose job — have signs of body dysmorphic disorder, a mental health condition in which a person has an unnatural preoccupation with slight or imagined defects in appearance."
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/27/some-nose-job-patients-may-have-mental-illness/
Just one excerpt from the article: "About one in three people seeking rhinoplasty — commonly called a nose job — have signs of body dysmorphic disorder, a mental health condition in which a person has an unnatural preoccupation with slight or imagined defects in appearance."
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/27/some-nose-job-patients-may-have-mental-illness/
No, It's Not the Nose
So you think that having a large or oddly shaped nose is the make or break item for finding a shidduch? You think that a nose is the deciding factor in whether or not a woman will be considered attractive? Luckily no one told that to the women featured in the article linked to below. If they can be considered as beautiful--and as successful--just why is it that so many others are harping on a nose as being a deal breaker when it comes to a shidduch? Could it be--gasp!--that some in Klal have got their priorities skewed, that they aren't able to assess the big picture correctly?
http://voices.yahoo.com/10-female-celebrities-large-noses-big-noses-arent-5245151.html
http://voices.yahoo.com/10-female-celebrities-large-noses-big-noses-arent-5245151.html
Sunday, March 25, 2012
On Beauty
There is quite a to-do raging over the Halberstam article in the Jewish Press suggesting that girls who "don't make the grade" beauty-wise seriously consider having plastic surgery so that they can get married. Trust me, there will be more postings on the underlying problem with this, but first I'd like to throw out a few items to think about.
Beauty is not, repeat NOT, something that has one pat, never changing definition. Beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder, and there are dozens of factors that may influence how that beholder defines beauty.
You cannot get everyone to agree about the beauty of inanimate objects, things like a piece of furniture, or a piece of clothing. You can't get them to agree about the beauty of an art object, a painting, a piece of music. You can't get them to agree about the beauty of things in the natural world. And we expect that there will be 100% agreement among men about what constitutes beauty in a woman they are meeting with the object of marriage in mind? Not possible.
So, any solution to our "shidduch crisis" that hinges on creating a standardized image of beauty through plastic surgery is doomed to failure. There is no standardized image of beauty that all will agree on. If we are going to throw money out on medical intervention, perhaps it should go towards psychologists and psychiatrists for the shidduch-hunting males and their mothers, to cure them of their skewed and unrealistic espectations and world views. That, at least, would be getting at the root of the shidduch problem.
Definitely more to come.
Beauty is not, repeat NOT, something that has one pat, never changing definition. Beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder, and there are dozens of factors that may influence how that beholder defines beauty.
You cannot get everyone to agree about the beauty of inanimate objects, things like a piece of furniture, or a piece of clothing. You can't get them to agree about the beauty of an art object, a painting, a piece of music. You can't get them to agree about the beauty of things in the natural world. And we expect that there will be 100% agreement among men about what constitutes beauty in a woman they are meeting with the object of marriage in mind? Not possible.
So, any solution to our "shidduch crisis" that hinges on creating a standardized image of beauty through plastic surgery is doomed to failure. There is no standardized image of beauty that all will agree on. If we are going to throw money out on medical intervention, perhaps it should go towards psychologists and psychiatrists for the shidduch-hunting males and their mothers, to cure them of their skewed and unrealistic espectations and world views. That, at least, would be getting at the root of the shidduch problem.
Definitely more to come.
Wednesday, March 7, 2012
I Somehow Knew This was Coming
I'm not actively redting shidduchim any longer, but my name still appears on a number of shadchan lists (can't seem to get it off those lists) and people still call me about shidduchim. Two weeks ago I got one such phone call. And frankly that call left me speechless.
A male in his early 20s called me from OOT. He was looking for a shidduch and knew precisely what would be suitable for him, having, as he put it, "tons" of dating experience. However, he offered a new twist on dating. He would not be coming into NY, if a girl were from here, for the first few dates. As he put it, those dates are about "elimination," not about choosing. To spend hundreds of dollars on plane fare to go out on a date and find out that the girl was not really shayich for him seemed insane. Instead, what he wanted was for me to arrange the first dates as Skype dates--they'd get to see each other and talk, but the cost would not be prohibitive.
Okay, there may be some positives for an out of towner in dating this way. But what would you like to bet that if this goes into practice for the OOT, it will soon catch on with those who are in town. It certainly would cut down on the cost of dating. And I can see some rabbis being in favor of it, because there would be no actual face to face meeting, getting into a car alone, being faced with temptation. Heck, even the environment would benefit, as less gas would be used, reducing air pollution and petroleum dependency.
As it is a whole lot of people are already replacing face to face socialization with online substitutes. I suppose it was inevitable that dating would find itself heading online. Still, I am already missing the "old-fashioned" way we used to socialize. Note: for those who don't have the Internet in their homes as yet, I'm sure the Marriot will jump to their aid. Instead of a lounge where real live people sit across from each other and talk, the hotel will provide a "lounge" with Skype-enabled computers for "dating" people to use.
Purim Torah? Sigh, I don't think so.
A male in his early 20s called me from OOT. He was looking for a shidduch and knew precisely what would be suitable for him, having, as he put it, "tons" of dating experience. However, he offered a new twist on dating. He would not be coming into NY, if a girl were from here, for the first few dates. As he put it, those dates are about "elimination," not about choosing. To spend hundreds of dollars on plane fare to go out on a date and find out that the girl was not really shayich for him seemed insane. Instead, what he wanted was for me to arrange the first dates as Skype dates--they'd get to see each other and talk, but the cost would not be prohibitive.
Okay, there may be some positives for an out of towner in dating this way. But what would you like to bet that if this goes into practice for the OOT, it will soon catch on with those who are in town. It certainly would cut down on the cost of dating. And I can see some rabbis being in favor of it, because there would be no actual face to face meeting, getting into a car alone, being faced with temptation. Heck, even the environment would benefit, as less gas would be used, reducing air pollution and petroleum dependency.
As it is a whole lot of people are already replacing face to face socialization with online substitutes. I suppose it was inevitable that dating would find itself heading online. Still, I am already missing the "old-fashioned" way we used to socialize. Note: for those who don't have the Internet in their homes as yet, I'm sure the Marriot will jump to their aid. Instead of a lounge where real live people sit across from each other and talk, the hotel will provide a "lounge" with Skype-enabled computers for "dating" people to use.
Purim Torah? Sigh, I don't think so.
Tuesday, February 14, 2012
Where to Go on a Date
There's a new site up that has information on places to go when on a date, both in the NYC area and outside of it. It covers all kinds of places to go, including listings of restaurants. The site was begun by a couple of ex-yeshiva bochrim, and it points out that married people might also enjoy going to these places.
Kind of strange that I'd come across this site on 2/14, given the date's significance in the secular world as relates to dating.
http://www.pegishaplace.com/
Kind of strange that I'd come across this site on 2/14, given the date's significance in the secular world as relates to dating.
http://www.pegishaplace.com/
Thursday, February 2, 2012
Lying in Writing
Having a few minutes of down time, I went back to look at the postings I put up in the first few months of the blog. I think I was looking to see if anything had changed in the past 4-1/2 years. Sadly to say, a whole lot of things are just the same, and some are worse. It seems to be my week for wedding-related postings, and one from September 2007 is still pertinent--maybe even more pertinent. So many people are making a mockery of the kesubah: they sign it full well knowing that they won't be honoring all that is within it.
http://conversationsinklal.blogspot.com/2007/09/has-anyone-read-kesubah-lately-there.html#comments
Does the kesubah really have any standing as a legal document or is it more of a customary thing, observed more in the breach than in the practice? Read the posting at the link above and you'll see just which line from the kesubah is getting my dander up.
http://conversationsinklal.blogspot.com/2007/09/has-anyone-read-kesubah-lately-there.html#comments
Does the kesubah really have any standing as a legal document or is it more of a customary thing, observed more in the breach than in the practice? Read the posting at the link above and you'll see just which line from the kesubah is getting my dander up.
Tuesday, January 31, 2012
Expense/Gift/Dowry--Which is It?
Orthonomics has an interesting report up of new wedding takanos posted in Israel. http://orthonomics.blogspot.com/ The idea is that the rabbonim involved want to reduce the cost of weddings and all the associated other parties and gifts. As SL points out, reducing the costs is one thing, but if you don't have the money for even the reduced costs, you are talking about debt financing, not a good idea under most circumstances, but certainly not for what is in essence a multi-day party.
One of my first postings was about gifts associated with marriage back when I was dating. http://conversationsinklal.blogspot.com/2007/09/on-being-gifted-klal-style-years-ago-i.html#comments
A comment made by bad4shidduchim on that posting has some relevance here. She said: " But when the gifts get perfunctory "what do we have to get" "what do they have to get", then it's just stupid. It's not a gift, it's a dowry. So why pretend? " Notice the use of the word "dowry." No one can pretend that dowries are some newfangled invention--our Jewish writings are full of talk about dowries--who gave what to whom and when. And no, all those dowries were not identical.
So, are all the expenses that people seem to think are "must haves" for a wedding a question of gifting or are they components of a dowry? And should a dowry, if that is what it is, be the same amount for every person getting married, or should that dowry depend on actual cash available? That is, why are all brides and grooms being treated in an identical way regards giving when it is clear to the whole world that not every bride and groom and their families have the same amount of money? Personally, if a family has the money without going into debt to buy X for a groom or bride, then let them buy to their heart's content. What I object to is having gift requirements for everyone that are basically the same, even if limits are being placed on the costs for those gifts.
Way too much of keeping up with the Rothschilds in our present attitudes towards gifts/dowries. Last I looked, most people could discern the difference between the Rothschilds and themselves, and non-Rothschilds weren't expected to live the same way as the Rothschilds did; they, themselves, did not expect it, nor did society expect it of them. It seems to me that the whole slew of wedding takanos out there are not taking into consideration that there are plenty of people out there who are not Rothschilds, nor likely to be. Instead of these takanos perhaps what is needed is for the rabbanim to come out with the blunt truth: if you're truly wealthy, do pretty much what you want, and if you're not wealthy, if you don't have the cash available, then do less, lots and lots less. There should be almost no requirements about weddings, with perhaps the exception of some type of wedding band for the bride.
What say you?
One of my first postings was about gifts associated with marriage back when I was dating. http://conversationsinklal.blogspot.com/2007/09/on-being-gifted-klal-style-years-ago-i.html#comments
A comment made by bad4shidduchim on that posting has some relevance here. She said: " But when the gifts get perfunctory "what do we have to get" "what do they have to get", then it's just stupid. It's not a gift, it's a dowry. So why pretend? " Notice the use of the word "dowry." No one can pretend that dowries are some newfangled invention--our Jewish writings are full of talk about dowries--who gave what to whom and when. And no, all those dowries were not identical.
So, are all the expenses that people seem to think are "must haves" for a wedding a question of gifting or are they components of a dowry? And should a dowry, if that is what it is, be the same amount for every person getting married, or should that dowry depend on actual cash available? That is, why are all brides and grooms being treated in an identical way regards giving when it is clear to the whole world that not every bride and groom and their families have the same amount of money? Personally, if a family has the money without going into debt to buy X for a groom or bride, then let them buy to their heart's content. What I object to is having gift requirements for everyone that are basically the same, even if limits are being placed on the costs for those gifts.
Way too much of keeping up with the Rothschilds in our present attitudes towards gifts/dowries. Last I looked, most people could discern the difference between the Rothschilds and themselves, and non-Rothschilds weren't expected to live the same way as the Rothschilds did; they, themselves, did not expect it, nor did society expect it of them. It seems to me that the whole slew of wedding takanos out there are not taking into consideration that there are plenty of people out there who are not Rothschilds, nor likely to be. Instead of these takanos perhaps what is needed is for the rabbanim to come out with the blunt truth: if you're truly wealthy, do pretty much what you want, and if you're not wealthy, if you don't have the cash available, then do less, lots and lots less. There should be almost no requirements about weddings, with perhaps the exception of some type of wedding band for the bride.
What say you?
Tuesday, January 10, 2012
Paper Does Not a Marriage Make
I've often maintained that if my husband and I had had to date under the rules in place today, there is no way that we would have been fixed up, never mind actually be married to each other. My friends agree with me, but one said there was no way to prove the truth of this statement with the kind of proof that would be needed to make a dent in the shidduch problems we see today.
Well, I sort of found a way to prove my statement. I decided to fill out one of those convoluted shidduch questionnaires, giving the info that was applicable when I was dating. I also filled one out for my husband, again giving the info that was applicable when he was dating. Then I spoke to three people I know who are active in shidduchim, giving them the info without the names attached, and asking them what kind of a person I should be looking out for for the man and the woman of the questionnaires, or could I redt the two to each other?
In all three cases, none of the shadchanim would even consider the "man" and the "woman" of the questionnaires as being a good match. They admitted that there were some points that were congruent, but not enough of them and not in the areas where it counts today. They pointed out that there were too many gray areas in the hashkafic sector, where the man and the woman wrote that they would be amenable to whatever their spouse wanted but had no definite immutable preferences for themselves. The man and woman did not agree on paper as to where their ideal place to live would be. Personality traits were quite markedly different, as were most of the items listed under favorite activities for leisure time. The shadchanim admitted that there were a few points that meshed well, but not enough of them for the shadchanim to waste their time in trying to redt these two to each other.
I should point out that on none of the questionnaires I viewed were people asked to fill out how well they did at compromising, when, where and under what circumstances. None of the questionnaires asked about the commitment of the person or about their work ethic in achieving a goal. None of them asked the people filling them out to define what the important traits for a spouse are.
So there I had it in black and white--hubby and I were not, under today's "guidelines," a good match for marriage, and shadchanim thought it would be a waste of their time to redt us to each other. Fortunately, we met in other times and without having to fill out a single piece of paper other than our marriage licence. Fortunate, because next month we celebrate our 40th wedding anniversary. And doubly fortunate that we believed that the Riboneh Shel Olam was mezaveg zevugim, and He didn't require us to fill out a questionnaire.
Well, I sort of found a way to prove my statement. I decided to fill out one of those convoluted shidduch questionnaires, giving the info that was applicable when I was dating. I also filled one out for my husband, again giving the info that was applicable when he was dating. Then I spoke to three people I know who are active in shidduchim, giving them the info without the names attached, and asking them what kind of a person I should be looking out for for the man and the woman of the questionnaires, or could I redt the two to each other?
In all three cases, none of the shadchanim would even consider the "man" and the "woman" of the questionnaires as being a good match. They admitted that there were some points that were congruent, but not enough of them and not in the areas where it counts today. They pointed out that there were too many gray areas in the hashkafic sector, where the man and the woman wrote that they would be amenable to whatever their spouse wanted but had no definite immutable preferences for themselves. The man and woman did not agree on paper as to where their ideal place to live would be. Personality traits were quite markedly different, as were most of the items listed under favorite activities for leisure time. The shadchanim admitted that there were a few points that meshed well, but not enough of them for the shadchanim to waste their time in trying to redt these two to each other.
I should point out that on none of the questionnaires I viewed were people asked to fill out how well they did at compromising, when, where and under what circumstances. None of the questionnaires asked about the commitment of the person or about their work ethic in achieving a goal. None of them asked the people filling them out to define what the important traits for a spouse are.
So there I had it in black and white--hubby and I were not, under today's "guidelines," a good match for marriage, and shadchanim thought it would be a waste of their time to redt us to each other. Fortunately, we met in other times and without having to fill out a single piece of paper other than our marriage licence. Fortunate, because next month we celebrate our 40th wedding anniversary. And doubly fortunate that we believed that the Riboneh Shel Olam was mezaveg zevugim, and He didn't require us to fill out a questionnaire.
Monday, November 14, 2011
One Way to Cut Wedding Costs
There are a number of reasons as to why getting married if you are frum costs as much as it does. One of those reasons is the sheer number of people who are invited to both engagement parties and the wedding itself. 300-400 people at a wedding is not considered as being "large," and a lot of weddings have far more people. When you are dealing with this many people at a simcha, all the other costs are multiplied by the number attending, and they become huge.
We attended a simcha given by someone looking to control costs while still having all those "nearest and dearest and whomever" be part of the simcha. An engagement party was given on a motzoai Shabbos at a very nice hall. Refreshments were of the fleishig smorgasbord type. There was a DJ playing recorded music. There was one photographer--a friend of the family--taking photographs. The hall had available very small silk flower arrangements of the type suitable for small cocktail tables, which they included as part of the cost for the hall. There were a few waiters to set up the food stations, but it was serve yourself throughout the evening. People came and stayed for as long as they wanted to stay. They sat where they wanted and with whom they wanted, hopping from table to table to visit with friends if that is what they wanted. Choson and kallah and their parents actually got to meet and greet all the guests who came.
The wedding itself is going to be a destination wedding in Florida. The estimate is that the number of guests won't exceed 40 people, if it goes that high. It will be held in a Miami hotel small meeting room and will be a "restaurant-type" dinner after the chupah. A photographer will be there for photos during the chupah. Only the immediate family and perhaps one or two close friends of the choson and kallah will be attending.
Estimates are that making the pre-wedding and wedding festivities will cost both sets of parents, who are splitting the expenses, about 1/5 to 1/4 of what it would have cost if all the "rules" in place in NY were followed, and that includes airfare for tickets to Miami.
Everyone at the motzoai Shabbos affair had a good time and got to celebrate with the choson and kallah and their families. They felt like they were "part" of the wedding celebration.
Certainly one way to curtail costs while having everyone wanted be part of the festivities.
We attended a simcha given by someone looking to control costs while still having all those "nearest and dearest and whomever" be part of the simcha. An engagement party was given on a motzoai Shabbos at a very nice hall. Refreshments were of the fleishig smorgasbord type. There was a DJ playing recorded music. There was one photographer--a friend of the family--taking photographs. The hall had available very small silk flower arrangements of the type suitable for small cocktail tables, which they included as part of the cost for the hall. There were a few waiters to set up the food stations, but it was serve yourself throughout the evening. People came and stayed for as long as they wanted to stay. They sat where they wanted and with whom they wanted, hopping from table to table to visit with friends if that is what they wanted. Choson and kallah and their parents actually got to meet and greet all the guests who came.
The wedding itself is going to be a destination wedding in Florida. The estimate is that the number of guests won't exceed 40 people, if it goes that high. It will be held in a Miami hotel small meeting room and will be a "restaurant-type" dinner after the chupah. A photographer will be there for photos during the chupah. Only the immediate family and perhaps one or two close friends of the choson and kallah will be attending.
Estimates are that making the pre-wedding and wedding festivities will cost both sets of parents, who are splitting the expenses, about 1/5 to 1/4 of what it would have cost if all the "rules" in place in NY were followed, and that includes airfare for tickets to Miami.
Everyone at the motzoai Shabbos affair had a good time and got to celebrate with the choson and kallah and their families. They felt like they were "part" of the wedding celebration.
Certainly one way to curtail costs while having everyone wanted be part of the festivities.
Thursday, November 10, 2011
Interviewing, not Dating
I was helping a student prepare for a job interview. Obviously I looked over the "official" paperwork needed, such as the resume. We checked that all the keywords necessary for this type of job were present on the resume and that the requisite references were actually going to be of benefit to him.
After that we did a practice run for the interview itself. Again, obviously, we worked on how to answer the "What is your biggest weakness?" question that interviewers all ask, as well as all the other strange questions that are now part of the interview process.
I had checked out the company the student was interviewing with, and it basically uses a three-interview process. After interview three you are either in or you aren't getting hired. Some companies may only use a two-interview process; a few require more, with a number of people within the company.
After the student left it came to me that shidduch dating today definitely resembles the job interview process, in the "paperwork" that has to be filled out in excrutiating detail, in the strange questions that can be asked during the dating "interviews," in the required references, and in the shortness of the whole process. Many people advise those in the dating parshah to avoid raising any personal issues or giving personal family information until the initial interviewing is completed and you are pretty much guaranteed the "job." And shidduch dating is like job interviewing in this aspect also: at the end of X number of dates you are either getting engaged or you're ending the connection.
Sorry, but I believe that equating marriage with getting a job is part of the problem with the shidduch process today. Maybe many years ago people who applied for a job were hoping to stay with the same company for their whole working lifetime. Today such an expectation won't be met. The estimate is, for someone entering the work world today, that they can expect to have anywhere from 13 to 24 jobs during their working lifetime. Longevity in the workplace is not a given.
There is also this: should a company be unhappy with someone they have just hired, should the fit be wrong, there is no problem in letting that employee go. Ditto should the employee find that he/she doesn't like working in that particular company. "Business employment divorce" is so common that it raises nobody's eyebrows.
When we treat shidduch dating as if it were a job interview, we shouldn't be surprised at the quickness of the process; after all, should the employee not work out it's simple to get rid of them. It's no coincidence that the divorce rate in the frum population has gone up, nor that broken engagements are far more common today than ever before. Nor is it a surprise that many "employees" and "employers" are not happy within their relationship.
If we insist on a business metaphor for dating, then we need to pick a more useful metaphor. Getting married is not becoming someone's "employee." Getting married is about establishing a "business" and needing a partner to do so. Getting married is about believing that the business may start out small but will grow over time and develop strength. Getting married is about learning how to compromise and learning when you can't compromise, all for the good of the business. Getting married is about expending a lot of time and effort in keeping a relationship working so the business won't fail.
Maybe instead of shadchanim and the whole ridiculous dating rigamarole that we put our singles through today, we should hand over the whole thing to some experts in the field of independent business establishment. They couldn't do a worse job than is already being done using the employee/employer job interview process in place now.
After that we did a practice run for the interview itself. Again, obviously, we worked on how to answer the "What is your biggest weakness?" question that interviewers all ask, as well as all the other strange questions that are now part of the interview process.
I had checked out the company the student was interviewing with, and it basically uses a three-interview process. After interview three you are either in or you aren't getting hired. Some companies may only use a two-interview process; a few require more, with a number of people within the company.
After the student left it came to me that shidduch dating today definitely resembles the job interview process, in the "paperwork" that has to be filled out in excrutiating detail, in the strange questions that can be asked during the dating "interviews," in the required references, and in the shortness of the whole process. Many people advise those in the dating parshah to avoid raising any personal issues or giving personal family information until the initial interviewing is completed and you are pretty much guaranteed the "job." And shidduch dating is like job interviewing in this aspect also: at the end of X number of dates you are either getting engaged or you're ending the connection.
Sorry, but I believe that equating marriage with getting a job is part of the problem with the shidduch process today. Maybe many years ago people who applied for a job were hoping to stay with the same company for their whole working lifetime. Today such an expectation won't be met. The estimate is, for someone entering the work world today, that they can expect to have anywhere from 13 to 24 jobs during their working lifetime. Longevity in the workplace is not a given.
There is also this: should a company be unhappy with someone they have just hired, should the fit be wrong, there is no problem in letting that employee go. Ditto should the employee find that he/she doesn't like working in that particular company. "Business employment divorce" is so common that it raises nobody's eyebrows.
When we treat shidduch dating as if it were a job interview, we shouldn't be surprised at the quickness of the process; after all, should the employee not work out it's simple to get rid of them. It's no coincidence that the divorce rate in the frum population has gone up, nor that broken engagements are far more common today than ever before. Nor is it a surprise that many "employees" and "employers" are not happy within their relationship.
If we insist on a business metaphor for dating, then we need to pick a more useful metaphor. Getting married is not becoming someone's "employee." Getting married is about establishing a "business" and needing a partner to do so. Getting married is about believing that the business may start out small but will grow over time and develop strength. Getting married is about learning how to compromise and learning when you can't compromise, all for the good of the business. Getting married is about expending a lot of time and effort in keeping a relationship working so the business won't fail.
Maybe instead of shadchanim and the whole ridiculous dating rigamarole that we put our singles through today, we should hand over the whole thing to some experts in the field of independent business establishment. They couldn't do a worse job than is already being done using the employee/employer job interview process in place now.
Wednesday, November 2, 2011
2 of my Favorite Topics: Writing and Shidduchim
If anyone still believes that Business Writing as a college-level course shouldn't be given, because, after all, we learned everything we ever will need to know about writing for business in 6th grade, please go on over to the Orthonomics blog for a prime example of why those with only a sixth grade education in business writing should NOT be allowed to put pen to paper.
As to shidduchim, don't you just love it when someone supposedly representing an organization under the auspices of a lot of choshuv rabbanim (whose names nobody will give us) says that it is perfectly okay to "beg, borrow and steal" to come up with the money to pay for the shadchanim being discussed, because, after all, this is shidduchim we are talking about. Clearly this group's organizers are fans of the NY State lottery; their theme seems to be "You've got to be in it to win it" and "You've got to pay to play."
http://orthonomics.blogspot.com/
As to shidduchim, don't you just love it when someone supposedly representing an organization under the auspices of a lot of choshuv rabbanim (whose names nobody will give us) says that it is perfectly okay to "beg, borrow and steal" to come up with the money to pay for the shadchanim being discussed, because, after all, this is shidduchim we are talking about. Clearly this group's organizers are fans of the NY State lottery; their theme seems to be "You've got to be in it to win it" and "You've got to pay to play."
http://orthonomics.blogspot.com/
Tuesday, October 25, 2011
It's A Frum Thing
Frum young men are not the same as their counterparts in the secular world in some very fundamental ways. A homework assignment I was marking yesterday underscored that in a very real way for me, just in case I hadn't noticed.
The assignment was to write an email to either your boss or your instructor explaining why you were absent from work or school and what you would be doing to make up for the lost time. Obviously the point of the homework was to see if the students had grasped the basic format/content rules for writing a business email.
97% of the students who chose to write an email to their boss used as an excuse for their absence that their wife had gone into labor and delivered, necessitating their absence that day. 64% of the students who chose to write an email to their instructor used the wife went into labor excuse. Keep in mind that my students are mostly young and mostly unmarried.
This exact same assignment used when I was teaching at two other colleges not under frum auspices got exactly zero responses using a wife in labor as an excuse for absence; yet, the students were the same age group as my students now.
Clearly our frum young men seem to consider marriage and family establishment as relevant to and a basic part of their lives at this age, even those who are not yet married.
I called an ex-colleague who teaches at a CUNY branch and asked her to do me a favor and just ask her classes at what age they either plan on thinking about marriage or at what age they believe that marriage is appropriate. I got her answer back this morning and it clearly showed a difference from my present students' answers. In her classes the females answered that the mid-20s were a good time to get married. The males answered that the mid to late 20s were a time to start looking. She went a step further and asked why they chose those age ranges. Virtually every student answered that they would be finished with college and/or graduate school and would already be working so they could afford to start thinking about marriage.
In the outside world marriage is seen as something that takes place when a person has gotten some life skills and is working. Inherent in the answers my friend got is the idea that marriage is something you do when you are finished with school and are independent financially. (Yes, yes, I know that there are some in the outside world who get married at fairly early ages--the exceptions rather than the rule.) In the frum veldt work skills and financial independence are not deciding factors as to when marriage is appropriate. Girls graduate high school and within the year are "in the parshah." Boys may finish a year in yeshiva post-high school and are "in the parshah."
I'll leave you to ruminate on the differences as regards to when to get married and under what circumstances. And you might want to think about how the differing attitudes between our frum young people and those in the secular world affect the lifestyles of married couples.
The assignment was to write an email to either your boss or your instructor explaining why you were absent from work or school and what you would be doing to make up for the lost time. Obviously the point of the homework was to see if the students had grasped the basic format/content rules for writing a business email.
97% of the students who chose to write an email to their boss used as an excuse for their absence that their wife had gone into labor and delivered, necessitating their absence that day. 64% of the students who chose to write an email to their instructor used the wife went into labor excuse. Keep in mind that my students are mostly young and mostly unmarried.
This exact same assignment used when I was teaching at two other colleges not under frum auspices got exactly zero responses using a wife in labor as an excuse for absence; yet, the students were the same age group as my students now.
Clearly our frum young men seem to consider marriage and family establishment as relevant to and a basic part of their lives at this age, even those who are not yet married.
I called an ex-colleague who teaches at a CUNY branch and asked her to do me a favor and just ask her classes at what age they either plan on thinking about marriage or at what age they believe that marriage is appropriate. I got her answer back this morning and it clearly showed a difference from my present students' answers. In her classes the females answered that the mid-20s were a good time to get married. The males answered that the mid to late 20s were a time to start looking. She went a step further and asked why they chose those age ranges. Virtually every student answered that they would be finished with college and/or graduate school and would already be working so they could afford to start thinking about marriage.
In the outside world marriage is seen as something that takes place when a person has gotten some life skills and is working. Inherent in the answers my friend got is the idea that marriage is something you do when you are finished with school and are independent financially. (Yes, yes, I know that there are some in the outside world who get married at fairly early ages--the exceptions rather than the rule.) In the frum veldt work skills and financial independence are not deciding factors as to when marriage is appropriate. Girls graduate high school and within the year are "in the parshah." Boys may finish a year in yeshiva post-high school and are "in the parshah."
I'll leave you to ruminate on the differences as regards to when to get married and under what circumstances. And you might want to think about how the differing attitudes between our frum young people and those in the secular world affect the lifestyles of married couples.
Thursday, September 8, 2011
No More, Please!!!
Those who have been reading my blog for a while know that I spent many years as a volunteer shadchan--read no charge--and about a year ago I got out of the business. I could not deal with the "new and improved" methods that have come into existence, particularly the questionnaires and what they ask.
Yesterday someone called me about a shidduch for one of my kids. I was happy to listen to the call until we got to the Grand Inquisition. The person calling got to the "What type of frum is your daughter" question, and having 4 wisdom teeth extracted without benefit of anesthesia started to look really good to me. To give this person at least some credit, she didn't just read off a list of all the different terms we are cursed with for establishing frumkeit, type and degree. Instead, she gave me certain scenarios and asked how my daughter would react to those scenarios. The one where I finally called a halt to the inquisition was the following: What would be your daughter's reaction if someone gave her comic books as a gift? Would she allow such a gift for her children?
Hashem Yerachem if such questions are integral to making a shidduch today or in any way, shape or form can help to define a person's frumkeit. When I called a halt to the questioning the shadchan sounded truly surprised. When I told her that such questions couldn't possibly have any bearing on a shidduch--certainly not on a shidduch date--she told me that the boy in question had put the answer to this question as a high priority. I politely ended the call and breathed a sigh of relief.
I've been married going on 40 years. Not once, not ever did my views on comic books become an issue in our marriage. No, my husband and I have not always agreed 100% on everything we have faced in our marriage, but that is what marriage is about: learning how and when to compromise, learning how to find alternatives when there is disagreement, learning that "winning" and always getting your way is not the object of marriage. Granted, I haven't read all that many comic books lately, but more because of lack of opportunity rather than a decision to stop reading them. Our pediatrician used to have copies of comic books in his office. I admit I was and still am a fan of the Archie comics. However, the kids long ago graduated to an "adult" doctor so I'm not around those comics much any more.
Attitude on comic books as an indicator of frumkeit and shidduch compatibility is just too much for me. Just when I think I've heard it all, along comes something like this.
Yesterday someone called me about a shidduch for one of my kids. I was happy to listen to the call until we got to the Grand Inquisition. The person calling got to the "What type of frum is your daughter" question, and having 4 wisdom teeth extracted without benefit of anesthesia started to look really good to me. To give this person at least some credit, she didn't just read off a list of all the different terms we are cursed with for establishing frumkeit, type and degree. Instead, she gave me certain scenarios and asked how my daughter would react to those scenarios. The one where I finally called a halt to the inquisition was the following: What would be your daughter's reaction if someone gave her comic books as a gift? Would she allow such a gift for her children?
Hashem Yerachem if such questions are integral to making a shidduch today or in any way, shape or form can help to define a person's frumkeit. When I called a halt to the questioning the shadchan sounded truly surprised. When I told her that such questions couldn't possibly have any bearing on a shidduch--certainly not on a shidduch date--she told me that the boy in question had put the answer to this question as a high priority. I politely ended the call and breathed a sigh of relief.
I've been married going on 40 years. Not once, not ever did my views on comic books become an issue in our marriage. No, my husband and I have not always agreed 100% on everything we have faced in our marriage, but that is what marriage is about: learning how and when to compromise, learning how to find alternatives when there is disagreement, learning that "winning" and always getting your way is not the object of marriage. Granted, I haven't read all that many comic books lately, but more because of lack of opportunity rather than a decision to stop reading them. Our pediatrician used to have copies of comic books in his office. I admit I was and still am a fan of the Archie comics. However, the kids long ago graduated to an "adult" doctor so I'm not around those comics much any more.
Attitude on comic books as an indicator of frumkeit and shidduch compatibility is just too much for me. Just when I think I've heard it all, along comes something like this.
Monday, May 2, 2011
A Word on Resumes
It has become popular to use the word resume when referring to those ubiquitous questionnaires that people in shidduchim fill out, giving their personal information to be used in shidduch making. Personally I never use the word when asking about shidduch information, nor do I particularly like its use by others.
Since the 1940s the word resume has been used to indicate a brief biographical summary of a person's career, a brief account of a person's personal, educational and professional qualifications and experience as they apply to a line of work being sought. It can serve as an outline of experience. How ever you choose to define the word, general usage puts it squarely in the job seeking area. This being the case, why oh why are we using it in reference to shidduchim?!
I have yet, ever, to hear someone refer to being married as being employed, as having entered into the job market. Surely those seeking spouses are not looking at their dates as possible employers/employees?!
The use of the word resume certainly fits in with the idea prevalent today that making shidduchim is big business. It's approached as if it were just another project on the work schedule, to be handled in a business-like fashion. What's going to be next? When a couple goes out on a date and one of them decides that the other party isn't a good fit for them, are we going to report that by saying "He/she doesn't have the qualifications for the job?" Or perhaps "He/she is not the type of employee that would fit in to my business environment"?
When we use the language and methodology of business and apply them to shidduchim we also should not be surprised by the high rate of employee dissatisfaction, lay-offs and employee terminations that we are seeing (that's divorce if you are wondering). In concert with the outside actual business world we are not seeing "job" growth at a high level.
I believe it's more than time to get rid of the word "resume" when talking about shidduchim, and all the other business-related terms as well. If we truly have to borrow terms from elsewhere, perhaps the arts would provide more appropriate terminology. I could live with someone's asking to see the score for someone else's Unfinished Symphony, or perhaps the Prelude for that Unfinished Symphony. I could live with someone telling me that the notes on the date were too flat or too sharp or in the wrong key. I could understand if someone said the lyrics didn't seem to match the melody.
Resumes and shidduchim? Time to change the loshon.
Since the 1940s the word resume has been used to indicate a brief biographical summary of a person's career, a brief account of a person's personal, educational and professional qualifications and experience as they apply to a line of work being sought. It can serve as an outline of experience. How ever you choose to define the word, general usage puts it squarely in the job seeking area. This being the case, why oh why are we using it in reference to shidduchim?!
I have yet, ever, to hear someone refer to being married as being employed, as having entered into the job market. Surely those seeking spouses are not looking at their dates as possible employers/employees?!
The use of the word resume certainly fits in with the idea prevalent today that making shidduchim is big business. It's approached as if it were just another project on the work schedule, to be handled in a business-like fashion. What's going to be next? When a couple goes out on a date and one of them decides that the other party isn't a good fit for them, are we going to report that by saying "He/she doesn't have the qualifications for the job?" Or perhaps "He/she is not the type of employee that would fit in to my business environment"?
When we use the language and methodology of business and apply them to shidduchim we also should not be surprised by the high rate of employee dissatisfaction, lay-offs and employee terminations that we are seeing (that's divorce if you are wondering). In concert with the outside actual business world we are not seeing "job" growth at a high level.
I believe it's more than time to get rid of the word "resume" when talking about shidduchim, and all the other business-related terms as well. If we truly have to borrow terms from elsewhere, perhaps the arts would provide more appropriate terminology. I could live with someone's asking to see the score for someone else's Unfinished Symphony, or perhaps the Prelude for that Unfinished Symphony. I could live with someone telling me that the notes on the date were too flat or too sharp or in the wrong key. I could understand if someone said the lyrics didn't seem to match the melody.
Resumes and shidduchim? Time to change the loshon.
Thursday, March 10, 2011
There are still seven days in a week
As long as this week already seems to be devoted to dating and shidduchim, let me discuss another area of dating I just don't understand today. Last I looked, a week still held seven days, and each day was 24 hours long, across all seasons of the year. With the exception of Shabbos itself, that leaves an awful lot of hours during the week to be able to date.
Now granted, Monday to Friday during daytime hours are not usually date times, although it has not been unheard of for two people to meet for lunch on a working day. There is definitely something to be said for being out and about with the sun in the sky instead of the moon. And there are plenty of legal/federal/state holidays where people are off and could go out.
This now brings me to Sunday. Unless you have a job that requires Sunday work, or are attending classes at some time on a Sunday, it would seem that Sunday would be a perfect dating day (and even if you have classes, you don't have them all day). Virtually all attractions and activities in the City and environs are open on a Sunday. Traffic in the City is relatively lighter because it isn't a standard working day. Dates don't have to have artificial limits on a Sunday because mostly the entire day is available for activities that can't be started and finished in 1-2 hours. Find that eating on a date can get a might expensive for dinner? Breakfast and lunch and/or an afternoon snack will cost you less.
Okay, okay, I know that someone is going to bring it up, so let me bring it up first. A whole lot of young men who are in yeshiva on Sundays, so for them it's a business day as regular. Those are the same young men who will quite easily take off from yeshiva if they have a family affair or simcha on that day. The same young men who have no problem going away for a Shabbos and not getting back for yeshiva on Sunday. The same young men who schedule needed appointments on Sunday and then keep them. In short, Sunday for these yeshiva boys doesn't seem to be so sacrosanct when it comes to yeshiva attendance. And you know what? I'm not saying they are wrong. But why isn't dating--whose final outcome is supposed to be the creating of marriages to strengthen Klal--also considered one of those things you can sometimes do on a Sunday, during the day? Roshei Hayeshivot should actually be thrilled about dating during Sunday daylight hours--not much of a chance that yichud will happen in bright sunlight in a car full of windows on a busy city street.
What I'm saying is that in addition to expanding the places you can go to on a date, singles also ought to be expanding the times they will go on a date. Dating is not synonymous with 7-8 PM. As the old song stated: Let the sun shine, let the sun shine in, the sun shine in!
Now granted, Monday to Friday during daytime hours are not usually date times, although it has not been unheard of for two people to meet for lunch on a working day. There is definitely something to be said for being out and about with the sun in the sky instead of the moon. And there are plenty of legal/federal/state holidays where people are off and could go out.
This now brings me to Sunday. Unless you have a job that requires Sunday work, or are attending classes at some time on a Sunday, it would seem that Sunday would be a perfect dating day (and even if you have classes, you don't have them all day). Virtually all attractions and activities in the City and environs are open on a Sunday. Traffic in the City is relatively lighter because it isn't a standard working day. Dates don't have to have artificial limits on a Sunday because mostly the entire day is available for activities that can't be started and finished in 1-2 hours. Find that eating on a date can get a might expensive for dinner? Breakfast and lunch and/or an afternoon snack will cost you less.
Okay, okay, I know that someone is going to bring it up, so let me bring it up first. A whole lot of young men who are in yeshiva on Sundays, so for them it's a business day as regular. Those are the same young men who will quite easily take off from yeshiva if they have a family affair or simcha on that day. The same young men who have no problem going away for a Shabbos and not getting back for yeshiva on Sunday. The same young men who schedule needed appointments on Sunday and then keep them. In short, Sunday for these yeshiva boys doesn't seem to be so sacrosanct when it comes to yeshiva attendance. And you know what? I'm not saying they are wrong. But why isn't dating--whose final outcome is supposed to be the creating of marriages to strengthen Klal--also considered one of those things you can sometimes do on a Sunday, during the day? Roshei Hayeshivot should actually be thrilled about dating during Sunday daylight hours--not much of a chance that yichud will happen in bright sunlight in a car full of windows on a busy city street.
What I'm saying is that in addition to expanding the places you can go to on a date, singles also ought to be expanding the times they will go on a date. Dating is not synonymous with 7-8 PM. As the old song stated: Let the sun shine, let the sun shine in, the sun shine in!
Wednesday, March 9, 2011
Top Five Revisions to the Shidduch System
PNN asked me a while ago what my top five revisions would be to the shidduch system currently in place. There's more than five revisions I'd make, but here are the ones that I'd put into place first, in no particular order.
1. Remove the middle man or woman. Once a first date has been set up and gone on both sides have to say yes or no within 24 hours. The shadchan will report the results to both sides. After that, the couple is on their own. You want a second date? You call and ask.
2. Mixed events for males and females (can't get too much more mixed than that) will be a requirement for every community to host on a regular basis. While there may be programs presented at these get togethers, let no one mistake that sufficient free time for the attendees to mingle will be a requirement of every program. In point of fact the best of these programs will be the ones where the mingling is built into the program, such as a game night where the males and females will be playing against/with each other, or a chesed program--let's have them preparing food baskets or sorting clothing or what have you.
3. Get rid of the age ranking system in place. For some reason that escapes me the "greener" the male and female, the more valuable they are in the system. Mother Nature is laughing at us for sure. While young bushes and trees and plants are surely necessary, it's the more mature specimens that are the most valuable. Go ahead and walk into any plant nursery. The cheapest item there is a package of seeds with a picture on the package of what the planting should look like when full grown. Of course, there is no guarantee that those seeds will sprout at all or that they will grow "straight" or that they will ever get to full size. The next cheapest items are the small seedlings stuffed 6-12 per tray. Again, they may show that they have roots but what they will actually do as they grow is not known. The most expensive items in the nursery are the full-blown specimens, the ones where you can see just what kind of plant you are getting, with what strengths and weaknesses. They come in their own individual pots and the more mature they are, the more they will cost you.
We need to stop pushing our young people into the shidduch parsha before they have sufficient roots and growth to thrive. While some plants may mature relatively early, a whole lot of them don't.
4. Stop the crazy time proscriptions. There are any number of people who have proscribed that dating has to run according to specifics of a clock and a calendar. First dates shall only be X number of minutes/hours. Subsequent dates may not exceed a specific hour count. Six dates maximum and you decide yea or nay. On the basis of what may be only 12 hours of interaction, we expect that our singles will be able (and willing) to make a decision that could impact them forever, both in a good way and a bad way. What other items of great importance do we attach such a timetable to? Shopping for a house can take months, if not years. Investigating and deciding upon a college to go to can take months of steady research, visitations and thinking. Even buying something simple, like a couch or an outfit for a wedding or a new car can involve weeks/months of looking, re-looking and re-re-looking. Yet, we suppose that following a simple and condensed time formula will allow all singles to make a life-altering decision based on 12 hours in a fairly artificial environment--not only suppose it, but require it. Unlike that outfit, which may turn out to be unsuitable when viewed in the privacy of your room at home, "returning" a shidduch or marriage is fraught with difficulty and is an emotionally scarring situation.
Let me simplify this one a bit. You get on an airplane at JFK heading towards Israel. You are squashed into an itsy bitsy seat that is not all that comfortable and you can't stretch out the way you want to. You are not necessarily dressed for comfort but for public view. You and a stranger are going to be sharing that space and are expected to be friendly but be formal. This is not a place to be raising subjects that might bring about emotional or heated discussion--social chitchat is the rule. Now add this--you disembark in Israel and are accosted by your nearest and dearest (and yes, some who aren't so near or so dear) and are told that you must make a decision RIGHT NOW: are you going to marry your seatmate or not? Yup, 12 hours of limited travel and a life-altering decision must be made.
5. Get rid of the "Too many cooks spoil the broth" syndrome in place. If only the male and female dating were involved in the process of trying to get married there would still be problems because of points 1-4 above. Now add in that there are whole slews of people who are actively involved, who push themselves into the process. Granted, it's perfectly natural to want to talk things over with someone you trust. But we've gone way beyond the "talk things over" aspect. The way things run today there are way more than two people who are going to be making the decision about who gets married to whom. Parents/grandparents/siblings/other relatives/rabbis/rebbis/morot/friends and just plain acquaintances all seem to feel that they are an integral part of the decision process, with a vote that counts at least as much as the dating people's do. In the end only two people are going to walk away from that chupah and go home together, only two people are going to get married. It's THOSE TWO PEOPLE whose wishes must be paramount. They might be making a mistake? Maybe yes and maybe no. But the mistake is theirs to make, not the entire world's.
Given the high divorce rate in Klal today (and no, that is not merely a result of divorces being easier to obtain or more socially acceptable), given the burgeoning sholom bayis problems particularly among younger married couples, what do we really have to lose if we change the system being used today?
Unlike baking and cooking, no proscribed recipe for making a shidduch is going to work across the board for everyone, nor will it result in a "perfect product" every time that recipe is followed. Even in cooking and baking every good cook knows that a recipe is only a loose guideline--sometimes it will work perfectly and other times it won't. We in Klal need to stop believing that our recipe for shidduchim is the exception to the rule--a recipe that works in all instances using a whole bunch of ingredients that differ from each other and from those suggested in the original recipe.
As I said in the beginning of this posting, there are lots more than five things I would change about shidduch making, but even utilizing one or two of the changes I suggest could make a big difference for a whole lot of people.
1. Remove the middle man or woman. Once a first date has been set up and gone on both sides have to say yes or no within 24 hours. The shadchan will report the results to both sides. After that, the couple is on their own. You want a second date? You call and ask.
2. Mixed events for males and females (can't get too much more mixed than that) will be a requirement for every community to host on a regular basis. While there may be programs presented at these get togethers, let no one mistake that sufficient free time for the attendees to mingle will be a requirement of every program. In point of fact the best of these programs will be the ones where the mingling is built into the program, such as a game night where the males and females will be playing against/with each other, or a chesed program--let's have them preparing food baskets or sorting clothing or what have you.
3. Get rid of the age ranking system in place. For some reason that escapes me the "greener" the male and female, the more valuable they are in the system. Mother Nature is laughing at us for sure. While young bushes and trees and plants are surely necessary, it's the more mature specimens that are the most valuable. Go ahead and walk into any plant nursery. The cheapest item there is a package of seeds with a picture on the package of what the planting should look like when full grown. Of course, there is no guarantee that those seeds will sprout at all or that they will grow "straight" or that they will ever get to full size. The next cheapest items are the small seedlings stuffed 6-12 per tray. Again, they may show that they have roots but what they will actually do as they grow is not known. The most expensive items in the nursery are the full-blown specimens, the ones where you can see just what kind of plant you are getting, with what strengths and weaknesses. They come in their own individual pots and the more mature they are, the more they will cost you.
We need to stop pushing our young people into the shidduch parsha before they have sufficient roots and growth to thrive. While some plants may mature relatively early, a whole lot of them don't.
4. Stop the crazy time proscriptions. There are any number of people who have proscribed that dating has to run according to specifics of a clock and a calendar. First dates shall only be X number of minutes/hours. Subsequent dates may not exceed a specific hour count. Six dates maximum and you decide yea or nay. On the basis of what may be only 12 hours of interaction, we expect that our singles will be able (and willing) to make a decision that could impact them forever, both in a good way and a bad way. What other items of great importance do we attach such a timetable to? Shopping for a house can take months, if not years. Investigating and deciding upon a college to go to can take months of steady research, visitations and thinking. Even buying something simple, like a couch or an outfit for a wedding or a new car can involve weeks/months of looking, re-looking and re-re-looking. Yet, we suppose that following a simple and condensed time formula will allow all singles to make a life-altering decision based on 12 hours in a fairly artificial environment--not only suppose it, but require it. Unlike that outfit, which may turn out to be unsuitable when viewed in the privacy of your room at home, "returning" a shidduch or marriage is fraught with difficulty and is an emotionally scarring situation.
Let me simplify this one a bit. You get on an airplane at JFK heading towards Israel. You are squashed into an itsy bitsy seat that is not all that comfortable and you can't stretch out the way you want to. You are not necessarily dressed for comfort but for public view. You and a stranger are going to be sharing that space and are expected to be friendly but be formal. This is not a place to be raising subjects that might bring about emotional or heated discussion--social chitchat is the rule. Now add this--you disembark in Israel and are accosted by your nearest and dearest (and yes, some who aren't so near or so dear) and are told that you must make a decision RIGHT NOW: are you going to marry your seatmate or not? Yup, 12 hours of limited travel and a life-altering decision must be made.
5. Get rid of the "Too many cooks spoil the broth" syndrome in place. If only the male and female dating were involved in the process of trying to get married there would still be problems because of points 1-4 above. Now add in that there are whole slews of people who are actively involved, who push themselves into the process. Granted, it's perfectly natural to want to talk things over with someone you trust. But we've gone way beyond the "talk things over" aspect. The way things run today there are way more than two people who are going to be making the decision about who gets married to whom. Parents/grandparents/siblings/other relatives/rabbis/rebbis/morot/friends and just plain acquaintances all seem to feel that they are an integral part of the decision process, with a vote that counts at least as much as the dating people's do. In the end only two people are going to walk away from that chupah and go home together, only two people are going to get married. It's THOSE TWO PEOPLE whose wishes must be paramount. They might be making a mistake? Maybe yes and maybe no. But the mistake is theirs to make, not the entire world's.
Given the high divorce rate in Klal today (and no, that is not merely a result of divorces being easier to obtain or more socially acceptable), given the burgeoning sholom bayis problems particularly among younger married couples, what do we really have to lose if we change the system being used today?
Unlike baking and cooking, no proscribed recipe for making a shidduch is going to work across the board for everyone, nor will it result in a "perfect product" every time that recipe is followed. Even in cooking and baking every good cook knows that a recipe is only a loose guideline--sometimes it will work perfectly and other times it won't. We in Klal need to stop believing that our recipe for shidduchim is the exception to the rule--a recipe that works in all instances using a whole bunch of ingredients that differ from each other and from those suggested in the original recipe.
As I said in the beginning of this posting, there are lots more than five things I would change about shidduch making, but even utilizing one or two of the changes I suggest could make a big difference for a whole lot of people.
Monday, March 7, 2011
Where to Date? The World is Your Oyster
A posting on bad4shidduchim dealt with places to go on a date. One thing that was being lamented the lack of originality that many young men have about where to take a girl (note: and the girls can't figure out how to give any input into where they will be going?)--the Marriot Lounge seems to be the default for most. Yet, a few young men managed to find someplace else to go--wonder of wonders! B4 asked her readers to tell where they went on an interesting date.
So I asked a few other women my age to name the places that we went to on some of our dates back in the dark ages. When asked why I was asking, I mentioned the posting. Eyebrows were raised so high in incredulity that they went up under sheitlach and ended up somewhere on the back of the heads. "This is NYC and environs and they can't find anyplace to take a date other than that creepy Marriott Lounge?!!" was heard unanimously. I mentioned that some of the commenters on the blog had concerns about yichud on a date and about being able to have a real conversation. Again, those eyebrows went flying.
Herewith some suggestions and comments from us "old fogeys" about where to go on a date and yes, what you might talk about and why.
First, the unanimous answer to where we all went on dates was "Everywhere!" And yes, there were some in this group who would qualify for membership in the more to the right group. All agreed that museums were right up there for places they had gone, and museums aren't just about art. We went to visit the cultural/historical sites in the city and environs--and yes, there are a lot of Jewish ones also. We took the guided walking tours that many organizations sponsor in the City.Two of us remember doing a tour of West Point. Every one of us had been to the Statue of Liberty, to Ellis Island and on the Staten Island Ferry. We went to any number and variety of arts/music presentations, including Broadway shows, off-Broadway shows, off-off Broadway shows, college/university arts presentations, concerts of all types. We went to movies, not just those produced by Hollywood but special presentations by various groups found in the City. We went to lectures presented by a number of different colleges and organizations around the City. We went for walks just about anywhere and everywhere that there was something to be seen, including every boardwalk in the City and virtually every City park, of which there are hundreds. We went to amusement parks of every stripe. We went to arcades. We got sports minded and played tennis, badminton, golf, miniature golf, bowling, boating, canoeing, Frisbee throwing, pitching ranges, kite flying, etc. (and yes a shooting range too). We went to craft stores and got artsy. We went shopping. We went to the main public library in Manhattan and also some of the specialized libraries. We went to book stores. We went to lounges--plural--with interesting views of the city or interesting interior architecture (think the lounge at the top of Rockefeller Center). We took board games with us and found a place to spread out and play. Back in my day there was even a lounge that was known for providing those games--you paid for the drinks and the games were free. We went out for lunch/dinner/picnic meals. Quite a few of us also remembered going out on "volunteer" dates, such as visiting those in nursing facilities or hospitals or packing food for the indigent or attending protest rallies.
And all that was basically just sticking to the City (and no, the list is not comprehensive--there's more to do). We also took "trips out of town" to points of interest in NJ and other areas outside of NYC.
Okay, some of those dates were "daytime" dates, to places not available during the evening hours. But a whole lot of those places DID have evening hours, and not just the lounges.
Now, what did we talk about? Please, tell me that even asking that question is not a joke. What didn't we talk about?! For one thing, we talked about the activity we were participating in. And yes, boys and girls, you can learn quite a bit about someone when they are giving you pointers about how to bowl more effectively. Are they patient or are they overbearing? Do they pretend to more knowledge than they obviously have? Are they interested in what they are doing or are they just passing time? Do they care that you understand what they are saying? Are they enthusiastic or blase?
We talked about what we were doing at the time--whether work, school, volunteerism or all of them. We talked about our families. We talked about trips we might have taken or trips we wanted to take and why. We talked about politics, and religion, and about what being Jewish meant to us. We talked about history and current events. We talked about food preferences. We talked about cars and the state of transportation. We talked about the weather. We talked about our likes and dislikes, and yes, what we were passionate about as well. We talked about the past, the present and what we thought the future would be like. We talked about money--how to get it, how to keep it, how to spend it. In short, we talked about everything and anything that interested us or our dates. You can get a whole slew of the "right" kind of information about a person's personality and outlook just by indulging in plain, ordinary, garden-variety conversation.
As to any halachic questions about dating, there are very few dating situations that are going to result in yichud, and no, according to my Rav at least, being in a car--that's a car with windows front, back and side--is not a yichud situation unless you drive deep into a deserted woods where no other car is likely to be. As the Rav once put it, a little common sense would be nice when it comes to dating. Ah yes, common sense: that least common of all senses.
A word in conclusion. One of the women asked just what it was that daters think is going to happen on a date? Do they think that lightening will strike and they will suddenly have an "aha" moment that this person they are with is "it"? There were a few giggles as one woman corrected that to be "they'll suddenly hear bells ringing." (Yup, we also had our silly moments when dating.) Dating is about getting to feel comfortable with the other person to the point where you want that comfort for the rest of your life. Anything and everything that can help to bring about that comfort should be considered a dating venue.
So, just in case someone hasn't figured out how to research online yet, I've provided some links to what there might be to do on a date in NYC.
http://www.ny.com/museums/all.museums.html
http://www.nyc.com/arts__attractions/
http://www.nyc.com/guided_tours/
http://www.nyc.gov/portal/site/nycgov/menuitem.22729165d49997f6a62fa24601c789a0/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_museums_and_cultural_institutions_in_New_York_City
http://gonyc.about.com/cs/museums/a/museumdeals.htm
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/01/how-to-get-into-ny-museum_n_829717.html
http://www.nycgovparks.org/
http://www.topoftherocknyc.com/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc
http://skyroomnyc.com/?gclid=CM-siq6UtacCFdF95Qodw25NBQ
http://mommypoppins.com/newyorkcitykids/new-cheap-and-free-mini-golf-courses-in-nyc
http://www.frommers.com/destinations/newyorkcity/
http://www.nycgo.com/events
http://www.nycjewishtours.org/
So I asked a few other women my age to name the places that we went to on some of our dates back in the dark ages. When asked why I was asking, I mentioned the posting. Eyebrows were raised so high in incredulity that they went up under sheitlach and ended up somewhere on the back of the heads. "This is NYC and environs and they can't find anyplace to take a date other than that creepy Marriott Lounge?!!" was heard unanimously. I mentioned that some of the commenters on the blog had concerns about yichud on a date and about being able to have a real conversation. Again, those eyebrows went flying.
Herewith some suggestions and comments from us "old fogeys" about where to go on a date and yes, what you might talk about and why.
First, the unanimous answer to where we all went on dates was "Everywhere!" And yes, there were some in this group who would qualify for membership in the more to the right group. All agreed that museums were right up there for places they had gone, and museums aren't just about art. We went to visit the cultural/historical sites in the city and environs--and yes, there are a lot of Jewish ones also. We took the guided walking tours that many organizations sponsor in the City.Two of us remember doing a tour of West Point. Every one of us had been to the Statue of Liberty, to Ellis Island and on the Staten Island Ferry. We went to any number and variety of arts/music presentations, including Broadway shows, off-Broadway shows, off-off Broadway shows, college/university arts presentations, concerts of all types. We went to movies, not just those produced by Hollywood but special presentations by various groups found in the City. We went to lectures presented by a number of different colleges and organizations around the City. We went for walks just about anywhere and everywhere that there was something to be seen, including every boardwalk in the City and virtually every City park, of which there are hundreds. We went to amusement parks of every stripe. We went to arcades. We got sports minded and played tennis, badminton, golf, miniature golf, bowling, boating, canoeing, Frisbee throwing, pitching ranges, kite flying, etc. (and yes a shooting range too). We went to craft stores and got artsy. We went shopping. We went to the main public library in Manhattan and also some of the specialized libraries. We went to book stores. We went to lounges--plural--with interesting views of the city or interesting interior architecture (think the lounge at the top of Rockefeller Center). We took board games with us and found a place to spread out and play. Back in my day there was even a lounge that was known for providing those games--you paid for the drinks and the games were free. We went out for lunch/dinner/picnic meals. Quite a few of us also remembered going out on "volunteer" dates, such as visiting those in nursing facilities or hospitals or packing food for the indigent or attending protest rallies.
And all that was basically just sticking to the City (and no, the list is not comprehensive--there's more to do). We also took "trips out of town" to points of interest in NJ and other areas outside of NYC.
Okay, some of those dates were "daytime" dates, to places not available during the evening hours. But a whole lot of those places DID have evening hours, and not just the lounges.
Now, what did we talk about? Please, tell me that even asking that question is not a joke. What didn't we talk about?! For one thing, we talked about the activity we were participating in. And yes, boys and girls, you can learn quite a bit about someone when they are giving you pointers about how to bowl more effectively. Are they patient or are they overbearing? Do they pretend to more knowledge than they obviously have? Are they interested in what they are doing or are they just passing time? Do they care that you understand what they are saying? Are they enthusiastic or blase?
We talked about what we were doing at the time--whether work, school, volunteerism or all of them. We talked about our families. We talked about trips we might have taken or trips we wanted to take and why. We talked about politics, and religion, and about what being Jewish meant to us. We talked about history and current events. We talked about food preferences. We talked about cars and the state of transportation. We talked about the weather. We talked about our likes and dislikes, and yes, what we were passionate about as well. We talked about the past, the present and what we thought the future would be like. We talked about money--how to get it, how to keep it, how to spend it. In short, we talked about everything and anything that interested us or our dates. You can get a whole slew of the "right" kind of information about a person's personality and outlook just by indulging in plain, ordinary, garden-variety conversation.
As to any halachic questions about dating, there are very few dating situations that are going to result in yichud, and no, according to my Rav at least, being in a car--that's a car with windows front, back and side--is not a yichud situation unless you drive deep into a deserted woods where no other car is likely to be. As the Rav once put it, a little common sense would be nice when it comes to dating. Ah yes, common sense: that least common of all senses.
A word in conclusion. One of the women asked just what it was that daters think is going to happen on a date? Do they think that lightening will strike and they will suddenly have an "aha" moment that this person they are with is "it"? There were a few giggles as one woman corrected that to be "they'll suddenly hear bells ringing." (Yup, we also had our silly moments when dating.) Dating is about getting to feel comfortable with the other person to the point where you want that comfort for the rest of your life. Anything and everything that can help to bring about that comfort should be considered a dating venue.
So, just in case someone hasn't figured out how to research online yet, I've provided some links to what there might be to do on a date in NYC.
http://www.ny.com/museums/all.museums.html
http://www.nyc.com/arts__attractions/
http://www.nyc.com/guided_tours/
http://www.nyc.gov/portal/site/nycgov/menuitem.22729165d49997f6a62fa24601c789a0/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_museums_and_cultural_institutions_in_New_York_City
http://gonyc.about.com/cs/museums/a/museumdeals.htm
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/01/how-to-get-into-ny-museum_n_829717.html
http://www.nycgovparks.org/
http://www.topoftherocknyc.com/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc
http://skyroomnyc.com/?gclid=CM-siq6UtacCFdF95Qodw25NBQ
http://mommypoppins.com/newyorkcitykids/new-cheap-and-free-mini-golf-courses-in-nyc
http://www.frommers.com/destinations/newyorkcity/
http://www.nycgo.com/events
http://www.nycjewishtours.org/
Tuesday, March 1, 2011
Paying Attention to the Numbers
Our local bakery is also a kosher grocery store and when they get busy you can stand in line for quite a while. While doing so this morning I overheard what was to me some fascinating information. I asked and was told that one of the speakers has an MS in Social Work and is going for a PhD in the same field. The other teaches biological sciences on the college level, so at least an MA/MS in biology. What they were discussing was shidduchim, more particularly the statistics about shidduchim.
First, there are no exact and reliable figures about how many Jewish frum singles there are in the US--all data is informal, some of it gathered from shuls in the tri-State area and some from major Jewish centers outside of the tri-State area. Some information was gathered from shadchanim and from shidduch making sites online. Some was gathered from the 5-year studies that are done on day school/yeshiva enrollments. The general consensus seems to be that from 10-20% of singles in any given age cohort will not get married, either because they are not looking to get married or because they can't find a shidduch. And, no surprise, the percentage may be higher among females than among males.
Now, what percentage of frum Jews in the US are of marriageable age? Again, there are no exact figures. What one of the speakers did was to look at day school and yeshiva enrollments for the past 10-20 years. Here there are some figures to work with. Extrapolating from those figures they came up with an estimate of how many of those students would not be married.
The 2003-2004 study of day school populations (including Chabad and Yeshiva/chasidishe schools, as well as affiliated Conservative and Reformed schhols; however, Haredi or ultra-Orthodox schools are not included in this survey), there were 205,000 children enrolled, 4- years-old to 12th grade. An even distribution would mean approximately 14,645 students per grade level. We do have facts to support that Jews are having larger families today, so that the younger cohorts may be larger in size than the older ones. In the seven years since the study was done that would be approximately 102,550 people of marriageable age who entered the "shidduch market." And what the speakers in the bakery were saying was that about 10,255 to 20,510 of them are not yet married nor likely to be.
One of the speakers is trying to work out a statistically reliable way of gathering more exact data. His feeling is that we in Klal need to know these figures. He was appalled, and expressed it, that at least 1/10 of the population of marriageable age can't seem to find partners. He said that when a figure is that high we absolutely must look at how shidduchim are being made to see if the method of shidduch making is flawed and contributing to the numbers of singles.
Someone else listening to the conversation asked "What if the number of singles isn't that high? What if it's only 5%? How do we know that that isn't a percentage in Klal that has always remained unmarried? Has there ever been a major time period when virtually everyone was married?" Someone else mentioned that the percentages would seem to vary according to how much to the right you were--those more to the right get married perhaps in larger numbers than those in the middle or to the left of religious practice.
Maybe these numbers are correct and maybe they aren't--it could be that the percentage of singles is smaller, and it could be that the percentage is larger. I agree that we really need to find a way to gather data and to re-examine our approach to getting married. If the way shidduchim are made is contributing to the percentage of people who don't get married then we clearly need to rethink that way.
Let me put it this way: if only 1% of those students graduating high school in 2011 through 2020 did not get married, and assuming that class size did not get larger (which is not the case), then by 2020 there would be 10,255 singles in the age range from 19-28 who are going to remain single. And taking it a step further, assuming approximately equal distribution of males and females and using the figure quoted today of family size of 4-5 children on average, that is 25,640 children which will not be born. Forget what percentage of the population those numbers represent for a moment: these are living, breathing human beings who have the same hopes and dreams that the rest of the population does, and whose dreams are going to be dashed.
Okay, my personal opinion is that this study desperately needs to be undertaken. For me, ANY percentage of our population that remains single points to remediation needed of the shidduch making process. I wish these gentlemen success in their undertaking. Klal could sure use more "mazel tovs" and less "it's bad for shidduchim-itis).
Note: thank you to GM for sending me the link for the day school population survey.
First, there are no exact and reliable figures about how many Jewish frum singles there are in the US--all data is informal, some of it gathered from shuls in the tri-State area and some from major Jewish centers outside of the tri-State area. Some information was gathered from shadchanim and from shidduch making sites online. Some was gathered from the 5-year studies that are done on day school/yeshiva enrollments. The general consensus seems to be that from 10-20% of singles in any given age cohort will not get married, either because they are not looking to get married or because they can't find a shidduch. And, no surprise, the percentage may be higher among females than among males.
Now, what percentage of frum Jews in the US are of marriageable age? Again, there are no exact figures. What one of the speakers did was to look at day school and yeshiva enrollments for the past 10-20 years. Here there are some figures to work with. Extrapolating from those figures they came up with an estimate of how many of those students would not be married.
The 2003-2004 study of day school populations (including Chabad and Yeshiva/chasidishe schools, as well as affiliated Conservative and Reformed schhols; however, Haredi or ultra-Orthodox schools are not included in this survey), there were 205,000 children enrolled, 4- years-old to 12th grade. An even distribution would mean approximately 14,645 students per grade level. We do have facts to support that Jews are having larger families today, so that the younger cohorts may be larger in size than the older ones. In the seven years since the study was done that would be approximately 102,550 people of marriageable age who entered the "shidduch market." And what the speakers in the bakery were saying was that about 10,255 to 20,510 of them are not yet married nor likely to be.
One of the speakers is trying to work out a statistically reliable way of gathering more exact data. His feeling is that we in Klal need to know these figures. He was appalled, and expressed it, that at least 1/10 of the population of marriageable age can't seem to find partners. He said that when a figure is that high we absolutely must look at how shidduchim are being made to see if the method of shidduch making is flawed and contributing to the numbers of singles.
Someone else listening to the conversation asked "What if the number of singles isn't that high? What if it's only 5%? How do we know that that isn't a percentage in Klal that has always remained unmarried? Has there ever been a major time period when virtually everyone was married?" Someone else mentioned that the percentages would seem to vary according to how much to the right you were--those more to the right get married perhaps in larger numbers than those in the middle or to the left of religious practice.
Maybe these numbers are correct and maybe they aren't--it could be that the percentage of singles is smaller, and it could be that the percentage is larger. I agree that we really need to find a way to gather data and to re-examine our approach to getting married. If the way shidduchim are made is contributing to the percentage of people who don't get married then we clearly need to rethink that way.
Let me put it this way: if only 1% of those students graduating high school in 2011 through 2020 did not get married, and assuming that class size did not get larger (which is not the case), then by 2020 there would be 10,255 singles in the age range from 19-28 who are going to remain single. And taking it a step further, assuming approximately equal distribution of males and females and using the figure quoted today of family size of 4-5 children on average, that is 25,640 children which will not be born. Forget what percentage of the population those numbers represent for a moment: these are living, breathing human beings who have the same hopes and dreams that the rest of the population does, and whose dreams are going to be dashed.
Okay, my personal opinion is that this study desperately needs to be undertaken. For me, ANY percentage of our population that remains single points to remediation needed of the shidduch making process. I wish these gentlemen success in their undertaking. Klal could sure use more "mazel tovs" and less "it's bad for shidduchim-itis).
Note: thank you to GM for sending me the link for the day school population survey.
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