Sunday, July 15, 2012

And so the War continues

I am not attesting to the facts in the story I'm about to repeat.  Whether or not the details are as reported is almost irrelevant.  The fact that such a story could be making the rounds now is enough of a concern.  What went viral over Shabbos in my community is the following story.

There was a wedding that took place up in Monsey.  Two men were called up to be edei chupah.  When they got up to the chuppah, the mesader kiddushin asked them both to take out their cell phones.  He examined them and then told one of the men that he had no filter on his phone and therefore was a posul eid and could not be used as a witness for the chupah.

Let us assume that this story is true as it was reported.  Has our community, or at least parts of it, lost its mind?!  Phone filters as the final determiner as to whether or not someone is frum enough to participate in Jewish ceremonial life?

Hmmm, I wonder if the mesader kiddushin also checked the cell phones of the choson and the fathers of the choson and kallah.  Would he have refused to be mesader kidushin for this couple if a filter had been missing from one of their phones?  Wouldn't bet against it.


AztecQueen2000 said...

I don't remember filters on the cell phone even being mentioned in the Torah (unless you extrapolate some type of shmiras eynayim thing--and then you can just walk around blindfolded)--but i do remember something about not embarrassing people in public.

Mark said...
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Mark said...
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Mark said...

More importantly, if the eid had been a gvir (a wealthy man that supports local Torah institutions), would he (the Rav) have have said anything. No way!

Shimon said...

If this was so important for that rabbi then why didn't he mention this to the parents before the chupah that he wouldn't allow aidim without phone filters?

And since when does the mesader kedushin have any say into anything other then standing up there and reading a few words? You don't even need a person to be a rabbi to be a mesader kedushin as long as you have a valid licence from the state. Our parents chose our aidim at our wedding--rabbi didn't even know who they were until they were up there under the chupah, and it wasn't his business.

Chaim said...

"Let us assume that this story is true as it was reported."

Let's not, because it sounds like an urban legend. Even if a Rav was concerned about it, he'd speak to the baalei simcha beforehand. Another giveaway point is the implication that a rav, presumably with little technical training, could quickly look at a smart phone and determine whether it had a filter or not.

efrex said...

Not mekabel this story as told. I'm with Chaim. No mesader kiddushin with any sechel would pull a stunt like this under the chuppah.

Mark said...

Let's not, because it sounds like an urban legend.

Yes, just like that story of a Rav physically and verbally assaulting a musician (Lipa?) that was performing on behest of one of the baalei simcha at a wedding.

These must all be urban legend because they sound so unbelievable!

Abba said...


"Has our community, or at least parts of it, lost its mind?!"

what do you mean by "our community"? why do you consider yourself part of such a community?

Chaim said...

Mark SoFla:

The rabbi has the ability (and in fact I've seen it done at many weddings) to talk to the eidim before the chuppah. In fact, rabbis who are more farfrumte are quite likely to do so, though not for cell-phone-related reasons.

In any case, my second reason is stronger. It's laughable to suggest that a rabbi like the one in the story would have the technical know-how to check whether the phone had a filter or not.

JS said...

The story does sound ridiculous. I'm just picturing the rabbi telling everyone to wait a few minutes as he scrolls through all the apps and settings on the phone.

Regardless, I'm with Abba. Who cares? Certain people are crazy. Don't associate with them. If you're actually part of that community and it bothers you so much, then leave. If you're not part of that community, then who cares? The only valid reason I can think of is that non-Jews or perhaps non-Orthodox Jews will assume you're just as crazy by association.

frum single female said...
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