A recent comment on one of my postings was made tongue in cheek--about Staten Islanders being like the inmates of a prison or like the animals in a zoo. This prompted an email to me from someone residing out of town. While much of the email would identify the town of the sender, and the sender wishes to remain anonymous, there is sufficient else in the email to warrant posting those parts.
To set the scene: a wedding was held out of town being followed by Shabbos sheva brochos. Guests who came in for the wedding stayed for Shabbos.
"All the snide comments from the New Yorkers aside, the wedding was beautiful. The focus was on the choson and the kallah not on the amount of money being spent or on what food to eat next. No one went hungry. It was leibidik. What more did people really need or want?...Overheard one woman telling another that the amount of the check for the gift to the couple was going to be less because the parents gave less to the guests at the wedding..."
"We were providing hospitality to some of the guests who came in. One of the women requested a paper cup for the drink of water I offered...clear that she didn't trust my kashrut, but she never even asked me...Comments that people made no pretense at hiding all Shabbos about how strange it was that we davened the same nusach they used at home and even got it right...A few guests who were quick to point out that where they came from there were no women who wore hats to shul with any hair showing out...Real shock when we took our guests to a shabbos shiur for women and they saw how many people attended."
"Real amazement that we can make do with only one shul in our area and that so many different types of people come there...Don't we worry about the influence on our children?..."
"One house guest thought she was being really kind when she told me before she left that it was obvious that we really were the right kind of frum and since we were why would we stay in such a mixed community. Why weren't we moving to New York to give our children better opportunities?"
"Thought about that zoo comment. It's like those guests all came to look at the animals in the zoo. Lots of people who think that the bars and cages in the zoo protect them from the animals. Looking at it from our perspective the bars and cages protect us "animals" from the visitors. Thankfully they come for a short time and then leave us in peace to enjoy our life."
Recognize anyone you know in the comments that were made? How many New Yorkers travel out of town and carry their attitude with them? How many have that air of superiority worn like a crown? How many fail to keep their voices lowered when making comments? How many let their amazement obviously show that Yiddishkeit can actually be growing and flourishing outside of the New York hothouse? How many question whether that Yiddishkeit is really "true"?
What bothers me the most is the lack of Shmiras Haloshon. Did these visitors really, truly think that the "natives" wouldn't understand the English and/or Yiddish they were speaking? Or didn't they care? After all, it was "only" out of towners who would hear the comments. Clearly they don't "count."
As I wrote in my answer to the email "Please don't judge all of those from New York by the visitors that came for that wedding and Shabbos. Just as all the people in your town are individuals, there are still lots of individuals in New York as well. Not all of us go visiting out of town with an attitude."
Unfortunately, many New Yorkers who travel outside of New York do pack "attitude" to take with them. Frankly, it "passt nit" that we do so. Whatever happened to Kol Yisroel areivim?
13 comments:
Like you say it is not all new yorkers. We don't like being thought of as a thing any more then the outoftowners do.
The ones who did all the talking are probably the same ones who talk about the dating people in your other post. And just curious, aren't their any gossips out of town?
I don't understand that attitude at all. The "out of town" Jewish communities that I have visited have all been warm, friendly, vibrant communities that extend lovely hospitality to guests. In most places, the cost of living is a lot more reasonable than New York, and the children lead more active, outdoor lives than NY kids do. I would love to move out of NY and become part of one of these communities.
Some of our visitors have been sincerely interested in how we manage being frum where there aren't a lot of us. But I've met the ones you describe also. They don't even try to figure out how we do it, they just can't imagine why we do it.
One great aunt who had not visited us until this past year always sent us care packages for every yom tov and birthday and chanukah. She would include coffee and mayo and Cheerios and spices because she was sure we had to import these things. When she came for my son's Bar Mitzvah she was stunned and embarrassed. But until she didn't see it with her own eyes she wouldn't believe us that we could get everything we needed with no problem.
as i've said before, there are 2 weddings that i remember the most (besides my own). one was the most expensive wedding i ever attended (it was such a classy affair) and the other was the cheapest wedding (it was the nicest wedding). the latter was out of town (in atlanta). it was in the rec room of the shul, milichik buffet and an amateur band. but it was so much fun and there was something really special in the air.
regarding the rude comments about the hosts being cheap and adjusting the gifts because of this, i have a post in the works.
"clear that she didn't trust my kashrut, but she never even asked me"
what should she have asked? i'm not sure how she should have acted in this situation. she has standards and how should she know if the people she stayed by shared those standards?
btw, SI has a great zoo for kids (iirc free on wed.)
"How many let their amazement obviously show that Yiddishkeit can actually be growing and flourishing outside"
i understand that some OOT communities have the basics for an orthodox lifestyle, but could you please define what you and others mean by "flourishing," "vibrant," etc.
Lion,
"what should she have asked? i'm not sure how she should have acted in this situation. she has standards and how should she know if the people she stayed by shared those standards?" Really simple--ask the relative before you arrive if where you are staying is a frum house according to your standards. If you are really that "medakdek," then water is the least of the problems you are worried about. As I understand it all the meals were served in shul so the only question is that drink of water.
As to your question about "flourishing" and "vibrant," fodder for a different posting.
It is incredible the amount of people that have attitudes about frumkite on both sides of the NY non NY spectrum. What is more interesting is everyone thinks that they are more frum then the other. What I don't understand is why these extremely holy people don't live in Israel the Mecca of holy? Why is it that NEW YORK is considered to be the end all be all. Is it possible that New Yorkers are actually fakes and are to sissy to be the real thing? Could that be why so many NY frummies have such negative attitudes? Or could it be that New Yorkers realize that there is life outside their state and they cannot deal with it?
i understand that some OOT communities have the basics for an orthodox lifestyle, but could you please define what you and others mean by "flourishing," "vibrant," etc.
Sure thing, but first I would like you to do the same thing for New York.
After all, I understand that most NY communities have the basics for an orthodox lifestyle. However, could you please explain to me what you mean to take as a given that they are "flourishing" and "vibrant"?
G:
first of all, please don't put words in my mouth or otherwise misconstrue what i wrote. for some reason you inferred that OOT mean outside of New York, when in fact OOT means anything outside of brooklyn.
but to answer your question, i would answer stability and most importantly choice
Fair enough, and you feel those things are not present "oot"?
...and for the record, as has been stated before, "oot" only begins once you leave the tri-state area.
You may not like it, but that does not make it any less true.
I have to agree with G that out of town does not mean anywhere other then Brooklyn, except maybe to those who live in Brooklyn and consider it as the center of the universe or at least the US universe. I'd argue however that simply saying the tri-state area is all in town could be debateable. Lots of people for whom Connecticut is definitely out of town.
Anyone who asks for paper cup to drink water clearly has no grasp of the basic halachot of kashrut....
I personally have lived in several OOT communities, and I remember being amazed when I first got there how starkly different it was from Brooklyn.
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