Sunday, April 17, 2011

An Observation on Shopping

Someone wondered about my buying produce ahead for basically the whole of Pesach. A brief explanation may lead to some thought on your part.

If you shop in a fruit and vegetable market that sells nothing but produce--that is, no chometz items are found in the store--then shopping there next Thursday does not represent a problem according to our local orthodox rabbis. However, none of these rabbis allow shopping in the branches of the major supermarket chains unless those chains have plainly and clearly stated that they sell their chometz before Pesach--and none of our local branches do so. Ditto for the fruit markets that also carry chometz products. So, no shopping in the supermarket chains during chol ha'moed nor in the fruit stores unless they've sold their chometz.

Even where a store does sell its chometz those planning on shopping next Sunday are in for a rude awakening--it's Easter Sunday, and at least in our area NO fruit and vegetable stores will be open and no supermarkets either. That leaves shopping only in a kosher grocery store and many of those, or perhaps most, do not carry fruits and vegetables.

Obviously where you geographically live is going to make a difference in the shopping available, but the manager of the local Stop and Shop and the other chain stores said they will all be closed in the metropolitan NY area. Something to keep in mind as you shop today.

9 comments:

Anonymous said...

You can't buy produce (non-chametz) in a store that doesn't sell chametz? What? Who told you that?

Abba's Rantings said...

never heard of this (not that it means anything). are you sure the objection to buying in these stores isn't a purely halakhic one but rather one of let's support frum businesses (or at least those play by frum rules)

Anonymous said...

Our Rav went to visit the supermarkets in our area and basically said that he wouldn't buy the fresh produce from them over chol hamoed because there is a real chance that the produce could be in contact with chometz. He pointed out that at least two of the markets had bread salad croutons displayed in the produce department next to the salad greens. In one market he noticed a bag that had a rip with the croutons spilled out and over the lettuces. What really bothered him was the market where the bakery and baked products for sale stick into the middle of the produce section. People were handling bread products and cakes and taking the same hands to squeeze the tomatoes and handle the greens. He made a point to say that this wasn't halachah just common sense to try and avoid an accidental contact with chometz.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 8:49,

I wouldn't shop at a market like that on a random Tuesday, let along during Chol Hamoed.

tesyaa said...

In one market he noticed a bag that had a rip with the croutons spilled out and over the lettuces. What really bothered him was the market where the bakery and baked products for sale stick into the middle of the produce section. People were handling bread products and cakes and taking the same hands to squeeze the tomatoes and handle the greens.

I suppose I am lucky that I haven't encountered such a supermarket, but in my decades of grocery shopping, I haven't.

People who are worried about microscopic specks of chametz spreading like germs have a sickness that is not borne by bacteria or viruses. (It's called OCD).

Abba's Rantings said...

second mishnah in pesachim states that we don't have to be concerned about a rat carrying chametz from one home into another, because then you would have to worry about a rat carrying from yard to another or from one city to another, etc. ואין לדבר סוף


i don't know if this sheds light on the situations described above, but if at some point אין לדבר סוף doesn't get invoked then we will all starve to death

(captcha: weigh)

tesyaa said...

Also, the original post talked about not shopping in stores that didn't sell their chametz. A dirty grocery store with croutons spilling into the lettuce might still have sold chametz. The store might need to sell its chametz in order to sell to Jews after Pesach; but it doesn't ever need to "sell" its vegetables.

(I don't understand how stores can sell their entire stock of chametz over Pesach and still keep the profits, but rabbis seem to allow it).

JS said...

tesyaa,

Good call on the OCD. I know several people who would likely be diagnosed as OCD if they ever saw a non-frum psychologist. Instead, they are perceived as VERY religious. I think OCD is severely under-diagnosed in our communities because it's so easy to hide it - or, it's so hard to detect in our highly ritualistic out-chumra everyone else communities.

At what point does it stop being cleaning for Pesach and start becoming a disease?

I see some people who check and wash and recheck and rewash and check again and wash again all their produce under light tables lest God forbid their be a single microscopic bug. Extra frum or OCD?

Checking and rechecking that the piece of matzah you're about to eat is big enough according to those printable shiur papers - being extra scrupulous about a mitzvah or indicative of a real problem?

Something to think about.

Miami Al said...

I agree with the Rav that said, I saw croutons spilt over lettuce at this grocery store, I wouldn't shop there during Pesach. That said, if that store "sold" their chometz, would it then be okay to buy romaine lettuce covered in croutons? I mean, sure you didn't "buy" the chometz, since it belongs to a third party, but can you now eat it?

The store "selling their chometz" is more related to a regional problem in NYC where many stores/distributers are owned by Jews (given 8% of greater NY is Jewish, and historically higher).

I'm not sure how the store selling bread in their bakery has any impact on the fruits and vegetables in the produce section.

But to each their own.

I also don't understand how "some European communities had a custom of not buying Eggs after Yom Tov to avoid "deriving benefit from chometz chicken feed translated into all American Jews not buying eggs after Yom Tov given that:

1. Our eggs do NOT go to market same day, they were laid before Pesach if they are in the super market

2. American livestock eat maize (corn), at MOST Kitniyot and realistically a harmless vegetable avoided because the English name corn and the Yiddish word karn sound similar and derive from the same middle German korn/karn.

I buy our eggs before Yom Tov because that's what the Rabbi says to do, but I cannot for the life of me figure out what problem would occur if I went into a warehouse store and bought eggs on Pesach III.