tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post8360939320644449853..comments2024-02-23T04:39:49.329-05:00Comments on Conversations in Klal: How Long is Long Enough?ProfKhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17954446826821665314noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-29436603508758269562009-11-19T01:43:08.149-05:002009-11-19T01:43:08.149-05:00Anonymous, you are right. But there is also a ver...Anonymous, you are right. But there is also a very real problem of people being pushed into making THE decision very quickly. I had experienced it first hand, and it's not fun. On the one hand, you don't want to get engaged if you are not sure, on the other hand, you don't want to say "no" if you think it could go somewhere. But there would be real pressure to make a decision one way or another, not just keep going out. <br /><br />Discussing things is good, but getting to know a person takes time. Some people are like an open book, some are not. There is nothing wrong with short courtship, if all parties are comfortable with that. Similarly, there shouldn't be anything wrong with longer courtships.SubWifehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10130118656023678187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-13994712124603794322009-11-17T14:06:01.288-05:002009-11-17T14:06:01.288-05:00If you're going to say that the rules can'...If you're going to say that the rules can't apply to every situation, then you cannot automatically assume that the reason the courtship fell apart was because of the short engagement period/dating time. There are so many factors involved that just picking on that one undermines the problem. There are couples who go out for over a year and never discuss the important issues - they're also breaking up after three months of marriage, etc.<br />The problem is getting people to talk directly about what they are looking for in life, marriage, etc. This doesn't have to take long (depending on the person obviously). If someone is dating someone for three weeks and feels ready to marry that person - the couple involved and their parents should be asking why? Is it just because you're attracted to them? Or is it more than that? Do you see similar outlook and goals in life? etc. <br />Please focus on the underlying problem instead of saying it's the short dating/engagement period. Since it's not always the case, it will NOT solve the problem...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-44812559797113068392009-11-17T13:47:55.585-05:002009-11-17T13:47:55.585-05:00Dave: of course, for some couples there is "l...Dave: of course, for some couples there is "love at first sight" or some similar variation. But other couples struggle with making commitment, wondering if "this one is the one" - just as in the secular world. The difference is that in the religious world, the pressure is to make a decision quickly. Some couples might break up, others might get pressured into marriage.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-83579636406855326842009-11-17T13:31:55.244-05:002009-11-17T13:31:55.244-05:00How much of this is a short courtship/engagement, ...How much of this is a short courtship/engagement, and how much is the social pressure for early marriage?<br /><br />My wife and I were living together within three days (obviously, I'm not frum), married with in three months, and are fast approaching our 18th anniversary. And we were married quite young by secular standards (21 for me, 22 for her). Mind you, we did not follow marriage with children, so that also is significantly different than the Orthodox world.<br /><br />I've given up trying to figure out what rules would mean happy marriages. As far as I can tell, the differences in people are so significant that general rules don't work. Of course, that requires you to be able to highlight differences when looking for a spouse.Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04391023891253673160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-62505635457348405562009-11-17T12:39:27.986-05:002009-11-17T12:39:27.986-05:00Short engagements in general are a good idea; if y...Short engagements in general are a good idea; if you're engaged, there shouldn't be aneed to 'get to know each other' (at least not until after the wedding). The problem is short courtships. I know 3 couples like the one mentioned in this post; they all got married around the same time I did, and all were divorced in less than 9 months (thankfully, none of the women were pregnant). And yes, we were all 20. The difference is that I dated my husband for 8 months, with all the naysayers saying he should propose already, if we didn't know by now it wasn't gonna happen, and blah blah blah. But look who's still standing happily married. <br /><br />And as someone mentioned above, there's also too much rush to parenthood. We know another 3 couples who divorced within months of having that baby that was conceived during the sheva brachos.wallEnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-24282156245936068622009-11-17T11:59:17.428-05:002009-11-17T11:59:17.428-05:00I remember a tv commercial that said 'We will ...I remember a tv commercial that said 'We will sell no wine before its time.' Seems to me we should act the same way. Sure there are people who will drink a wine right after it's bottled, but everyone knows that the best wines need to sit in the bottle for a long time and get aged to perfection.<br /><br />Lots of products that get better with age. I guess we religious jews aren't gourmets. Shame.Alnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-3126169532149563132009-11-17T10:39:05.102-05:002009-11-17T10:39:05.102-05:00"Marry in haste, repent in leisure."
..."Marry in haste, repent in leisure." <br /><br /><br />Actually, there is teaching of Chazal, a gemara I believe, that advises deliberation, not being hasty in rushing into marriage (that is an addition to teachings such as 'first build a house, then plant a vineyard, then marry').FYInoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-86134848877090826132009-11-17T09:38:38.434-05:002009-11-17T09:38:38.434-05:00My husband and I got married 7 weeks after we beca...My husband and I got married 7 weeks after we became engaged. Just enough time to get a hall and send out invitations. BUT we dated for over 7 months before we became engaged. Anything we had real questions about was asked and answered before we decided to get married. We saw each other's reactions in all kinds of situations. We weren't strangers. Of course we also weren't 20. We were both of us over the 30 line. We had dated a lot of different people and had a chance to figure out what WE needed in a marriage partner, what WE found we could either live with or not live with in someone else. Pretty much all those helpful people who were pushing us to get married while we were still in college had given up on us. <br /><br />You know the strange thing? When we announced we were getting married there were people whose comments were if this is what he/she wanted they could have had that years ago. No, we couldn't have. We were different people back then and neither of us really knew what WE wanted, just what everyone else told us we should want.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-26603488322286152062009-11-17T07:26:55.278-05:002009-11-17T07:26:55.278-05:00A big part of the rush to quick marriage is the ra...A big part of the rush to quick marriage is the rabbinic fear that young couples will "sin" (i.e. engage in touching each other, or going further). Many, maybe most couples do anyway (even the frummest, because human nature is human nature). So the reasoning is that short engagements make it easier for the couple to wait, or at least cut down on the time they have available to "sin".<br /><br />This is sad on so many levels. At least the couple you mentioned has no children. Once there are children, there is often no "divorcing" yourself from a person; because of the children, couples are sort of bound to each other for the rest of their lives. If the ex-spouse is abusive or mentally ill, a life of heartache is the result. <br /><br />Here, you write about the rush to quickie marriage. Maybe you should have a follow-up post about the rush to quickie parenthood.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com