tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post8063260607102579937..comments2024-02-23T04:39:49.329-05:00Comments on Conversations in Klal: Money and HealthProfKhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17954446826821665314noreply@blogger.comBlogger46125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-17990112256399206502010-11-16T14:25:31.988-05:002010-11-16T14:25:31.988-05:00I may not make the healthiest cholent, but it is t...I may not make the healthiest cholent, but it is the ONLY thing I make for Shabbos lunch. Meat, beans and potatoes constitutes a full meal, no reason to knock myself out over sides. Cholent is followed by fruit for dessert. Also, we don't eat meat during the week.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-71020858880039413932010-11-16T13:02:40.265-05:002010-11-16T13:02:40.265-05:00We once went to a friend's house, where the fo...We once went to a friend's house, where the food was so salt filled, that I was concerned about my heart for the rest of the night... I might not have been the healthiest of 20-somethings at the time, but my heart was RACING the rest of the night... I sat up drinking water and trying to flush my system until 1 AM last night....<br /><br />And yes, most Chullents that I see have more meat in them than my family eats in a week.<br /><br />Regarding kids, kids need to learn to eat vegetables as part of the meal. The sodium/oil issues matter less for them if they are physically active, but if kids learn that a plate should be 50% vegetable, 25% starch, and 25% protein, they'll be fine. The details re: oil/sugar/salt, etc., they can worry about when they are older.<br /><br />I am always grossed out when we attend a Shabbos table where all the food is brown, there is no excuse for that.Miami Alhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02977503720972852329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-8067194089638426632010-11-16T13:00:45.872-05:002010-11-16T13:00:45.872-05:00Abba,
I didn't say I didn't like kishka, j...Abba,<br />I didn't say I didn't like kishka, just that I don't make it any longer. And yes, there are some more healthful ways to tweak the recipe.<br /><br />Re the school lunches, yet one more area that the schools have taken over what used to be parental responsibility and choice. When my kids went to school, school lunch was optional, and mine brought their lunch from home. Wasn't just a money issue--it was a what do I want them to be eating issue.<br /><br />Yes, I'd imagine that a whole lot of school administrators have no idea about nutrition and what school meals should be providing. And yes, I'd guess they don't want what they see as another headache. But that really does not excuse parents from complaining and complaining a lot. Know many restaurants that tell you what you are going to be eating for the money you are paying? Parents pay for those lunches and ought to be having a say in what is provided. Or at least that's how my dreams go.<br /><br />At a minimum schools should be providing an alternate eating area, a classroom or some such thing, where parents who want their kids eating home lunch can eat. I imagine that some parents wouldn't even care if they had to sign a statement to the affect that they know that the school cannot guarantee the kashrut of any lunches brought from home and parents, therefore, cannot blame the school if their child is exposed to food they don't want their child eating.ProfKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17954446826821665314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-73644571357304987562010-11-16T12:44:22.730-05:002010-11-16T12:44:22.730-05:00schools don't teach or practice good nutrition...schools don't teach or practice good nutrition because administrators and staff themselves don't care and/or are ignorant about these issues<br /><br />furthermore, as with everything else that is wrong with the schools, they get away with it because parents themselves don't care enough<br /><br />the truth is that i'm not sure if you can really teach good nutrition to kids and it's probably more important just to practice it and let them learn good habits.<br /><br />and i happen to love kishka, so if if profk or js post one more time about its ill effects i will bow out here!Abba's Rantingshttp://abbasrantings.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-87589906060038369712010-11-16T12:42:44.267-05:002010-11-16T12:42:44.267-05:00ANON:
"heavily use things like soy sauce, on...ANON:<br /><br />"heavily use things like soy sauce, onion soup mix"<br /><br />i didn't understand why the menu in my son's school listed chicken soup on dairy days. i went to the kitchen and found out they were serving parve chicken broth made from msg-laden mix. i tried to explain to a few people in the school that there is no purpose in serving a soup just for the sake of being able to put a soup on the menu if there is no (or negative) nutriotional value. they simply didn't understand my point.Abba's Rantingshttp://abbasrantings.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-52704717356669354422010-11-16T12:27:48.700-05:002010-11-16T12:27:48.700-05:00JS,
I'm aware that I'm that outlier--I onc...JS,<br />I'm aware that I'm that outlier--I once did a posting on "By your cholent you'll be known" and the contents of some of those cholents made those at your shul cookoff seem tame by comparison. And then there is my friend who adds into her cholent a small whole salami in addition to all the oil and salt she puts in. And oh yes, she puts in a few handfuls of mushrooms, in case the gas factor is not high enough as it is.<br /><br />Honestly? My family members don't touch the cholent at shul or at almost any homes we're invited to for a Shabbos lunch meal--not what they are used to or what they prefer. But I guess to each their own.ProfKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17954446826821665314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-16787073372284244112010-11-16T12:01:35.221-05:002010-11-16T12:01:35.221-05:00I once competed at the shul's "cholent co...I once competed at the shul's "cholent cookoff" which entailed making your cholent in the shul's kitchen for kashrut reasons. I hope you won't be surprised to know that your cholent recipe is a far, far, far outlier in what I saw people putting together. Many of the people diced a few onions and fried them in a ton of vegetable oil until soft and poured the mixture into the crock pot. Most had a store-bought kishka (orange wrapper, kinda looks like a big salami from the outside). If they didn't fry the onions, most added vegetable oil in. Some added a bottle or so of ketchup or BBQ sauce. The crock pots we each used were maybe 4 quarts and I think on average people added around 1.5-3 pounds of various meats and hotdogs. Kinda gross watching all of this, I must admit. But, they knew their audience. The ones who got the most votes were the ones with the most meat and the most kishka.<br /><br />We're pretty much the same as you when it comes to salads. But, I really haven't been to too many meals where the salad comprised ingredients outside of just lettuce, dressing, croutons or ramen noodles, and maybe some cherry tomatoes.JSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-71587704097964493132010-11-16T11:42:08.634-05:002010-11-16T11:42:08.634-05:00JS,
Re those salads swimming in dressing, yes a pe...JS,<br />Re those salads swimming in dressing, yes a pet peeve of mine. My mom never served salad with dressing and I don't either. When I'm having company I put a small bowl of low calorie dressing on the table for those who want it, but no one in my family touches it. And plain lettuce, iceburg alone? Not a salad in my house. Even a basic salad has romaine, cucumbers,shredded carrots, scallions, radishes and tomatoes, and raw sugar snap peas cut up when they are in season. Sometimes, if I have the time to do the checking, I use baby spinach leaves as well or some of the dark specialty lettuces or greens, like bok choy, or the specialty cabbages.ProfKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17954446826821665314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-33532904829086233222010-11-16T11:36:34.613-05:002010-11-16T11:36:34.613-05:00I agree JS that sometimes eating habits are the bi...I agree JS that sometimes eating habits are the big problem, even more than what is being eaten. The big kiddush straight to lunch syndrome I truly don't understand.<br /><br />Re the cholent, what added oil and fried onions? I use neither in my cholent. That's what raw onions and garlic and long cooking is for. I haven't made kishka in decades but there should be zero problem in substituting whole wheat flour for the white flour since the kishka browns in the cholent and who would know the difference? And egg substitute will work fine instead of whole eggs. Oil can be reduced to the absolute minimum and there's plenty of liquid in the cholent itself to keep the kishka moist. <br /><br />Re the meat in the cholent, one beef bone will lend sufficient flavor to the cholent without destroying the calorie/fat count per person. Or I cut up a middle chuck steak into very small cubes, getting about 8-10 bags of meat from one steak. One bag of the meat cubes, about 1-1/2 to 2-1/2 ounces of beef depending on the size of the steak, lends a very nice flavor to the cholent while providing minimal calories when taking the number of people eating that cholent into account. And it does add iron.ProfKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17954446826821665314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-4793934172321853042010-11-16T11:25:06.872-05:002010-11-16T11:25:06.872-05:00Sorry, on a roll...
And many of the side dishes t...Sorry, on a roll...<br /><br />And many of the side dishes that actually could be healthy are drenched in sauces or dressings that are VERY unhealthy. It would seem that the standard salad at many meals is basically just lettuce tosses with a pareve ranch/caesar salad dressing with croutons.JSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-55244931330232776872010-11-16T11:22:10.014-05:002010-11-16T11:22:10.014-05:00Oh, and let's not forget that it's the rar...Oh, and let's not forget that it's the rare Shabbos meal I've ever been to where the drinks on the table aren't sugar-laden sodas (a special Shabbos treat).JSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-23596671366037375512010-11-16T11:20:58.437-05:002010-11-16T11:20:58.437-05:00ProfK,
Well, of COURSE you could make a potato ku...ProfK,<br /><br />Well, of COURSE you could make a potato kugel with far less oil. I recall your previous post on the issue. But, there's no denying that the people who try to limit the oil are few and far between. If you look at any "standard" recipe for potato or noodle kugel, for example, the amount of oil and eggs and salt is astonishing. And for noodle kugel, of course you're using the unhealthiest egg noodles you can find. Plus, it would seem that a kosher caterer has never seen a recipe that doesn't include obscene amounts of oil and salt. Try finding a piece of kugel at a shabbos kiddush that isn't drenched in oil. And all those healthy beans in the cholent are far outweighed by the kishka and other oils and fats people add (e.g., fried onions).<br /><br />And yet, even on short Shabboses, you will see people stuff themselves at kiddush, come home and eat a huge meal 30 minutes later, take a brief nap, and go back to shul for more food at shalashudis. And, of course, since Shabbos ended early, they then have dinner a bit later - maybe at one of the restaurants that's now open due to the early Shabboses!JSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-64006702267218310962010-11-16T11:20:57.637-05:002010-11-16T11:20:57.637-05:00You didn't mention that eating vitamin C with ...You didn't mention that eating vitamin C with those non heme iron foods also increases the amount of iron you get from the foods. So it doesn't just have to be animal foods eaten with them to increase the iron you are getting.<br /><br />A food like broccoli has both the iron and the vitamin C so it's a great source. So of course the rabbis have to make a problem with eating this food.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-41650535347797894152010-11-16T11:12:19.415-05:002010-11-16T11:12:19.415-05:00JS,
I'll agree that nostalgia and lack of know...JS,<br />I'll agree that nostalgia and lack of knowledge can contribute to some of the problems in frum eating. But the nostalgia alone is not the problem, as I've pointed out in postings before.<br /><br />Kugel does not have to be drenched in oil--that's what spray oil bottles are for. And also, just what oil are you using? Some oils are actually good for you, used in proper amounts.<br /><br />Yes, there is too much frying going on, good oil or not. Breaded fried chicken cutlets appear on my menu only on acharon shel Pesach. If I'm in the mood maybe, maybe I might make those fried cutlets for my hubby's birthday or our anniversary, but that's it.<br /><br />Re the cholent, keep in mind that the mix of beans in a cholent are actually healthy for you. Among other things, those beans contain a lot of non-heme iron. But that's also a problem. The iron in non-heme iron sources--which accounts for 85% of of iron in our diets--is only absorbed at slightly less than 20%. Heme iron is found in animal sources. The heme iron is absorbed at almost 100%. One recommendation given by the government and nutritional experts is to mix heme and non-heme sources, since having heme iron present increases the amount of iron that can be absorbed from non-heme sources. In plain English, putting a beef bone or a small amount of beef into the cholent means that you are going to get more iron and be able to absorb the iron from the beans in greater amounts. And yes, iron deficiency is alive and well, particularly among females in the 12 to 55 age range, who require greater amounts of iron than males do.<br /><br />I have no problem with multiple side dishes as long as those side dishes each contributes something to the nutrition mix and are made in a healthy way.ProfKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17954446826821665314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-4007191663203586252010-11-16T10:49:59.371-05:002010-11-16T10:49:59.371-05:00We were never taught anything about nutrition in y...We were never taught anything about nutrition in yeshiva. I vaguely recall a brief lesson on the food pyramid, but I don't think it was anything beyond "this is the food pyramid." There weren't any lessons on are we eating the right foods, do we get enough calcium, enough fruits and veggies, etc.<br /><br />I think the problem for frum Jews is a combination of poor eating habits from the past before much about nutrition was known, nostalgia, lack of education, modern conveniences, and over-abundance of food in this country.<br /><br />So, on Shabbos, people will make a fried schnitzel, a potato kugel drenched in oil, and a chulent with kishka (animal fat) - it's nostalgic, having these foods is Shabbos for many people. But, the era it harkens back to is one in which people didn't know anything about arteriosclerosis or heart disease. They also likely only had 1 meat a week and/or were far more physically active. Then you have things like chicken soup, which should be healthful, but people throw in cube after cube of "chicken soup flavoring" to get the flavor just right. Or, they want to make matzah balls so they buy the mixes which are loaded with chemicals. Or, you don't have time so you buy from the local restaurant or deli counter and get food loaded with oil, salt, and God knows what else. And, to top it off every meal has multiple main dishes and side dishes because, as much as people complain about kosher food prices, $5 or so per lb for chicken breast or meat isn't make or break, and you have to eat better on Shabbos than the rest of the week (during which you already ate lots of meat).JSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-84996854796305570272010-11-16T10:46:18.777-05:002010-11-16T10:46:18.777-05:00Agreed Abba that my family are outliers in the hei...Agreed Abba that my family are outliers in the height department, but we're that outlier among all Americans as well. According to a study done by the CDC covering 2003-2006, the average height of males in the US is 5"9-1/2 and of women it's 5'3-3/4. Those would be the figures to compare against if you are trying to see how Jews compare in height against the general population. Actually, make that frum Jews. Non-religious Jews have a higher rate of inter-population marriage, bringing in height genes that may not be present, as Anon pointed out, because of less variety in the frum genetic makeup.<br /><br />On the other hand, if you want to increase the average height of frum Jews, let's really screw up the already screwed up shidduch process and "insist" that two short people cannot marry each other--one party to the shidduch must be at least at the statistical level for US tallness or far above it. This would statistically allow for a greater spread of the tall genes across the frum population.<br /><br />Anon 10:05--<br />Yeshivas and seminaries teaching nutrition courses? Surely you jest. In 1997, while teaching in a girls high school, I developed a curriculum for a nutrition course, which was then taught by one of the science teachers. Well, when I left the school, and the science teacher shortly thereafter, the course disappeared. <br /><br />None of my kids' schools specifically taught nutrition, and neither did any of the schools my nieces and nephews attended. <br /><br />I can give you two possible reasons the schools don't do this teaching: 1)their own school food offerings would come under fire and 2)"heimishe" food company offerings would also come under fire.ProfKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17954446826821665314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-16102205519636085582010-11-16T10:05:29.490-05:002010-11-16T10:05:29.490-05:00With the discussion of school lunches, I'm cur...With the discussion of school lunches, I'm curious if any yeshivot teach proper nutrition. What about girl's seminaries? I am amazed at how many people think that low sodium means not adding salt to their recipes, but continue to heavily use things like soy sauce, onion soup mix, ketchup and pickle relish and olives in their dishes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-1452321861602902332010-11-16T10:02:02.511-05:002010-11-16T10:02:02.511-05:00Genetics sets the limits on what height you can re...Genetics sets the limits on what height you can reach with proper nutrition at the key stages of physicial development. Nutrition determines whether or not you will reach those limits. Based on my unscientific observations, I suspect that on average, ashkenazi jews are a little shorter than the general u.s. population. Likely, due to genes and somewhat less influx of variety in the genetic makeup.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-30200067366741146182010-11-16T09:51:43.031-05:002010-11-16T09:51:43.031-05:00PROFK:
i agree about the contriobution of genetic...PROFK:<br /><br />i agree about the contriobution of genetics, which i mentioned above<br /><br />of course there are tall jews. no one denies that. the question is of averages, and from down here it seems that we're on the smaller range. maybe you don't realize this because when you and your husband look strait, all you see are the other tall jews. but the rest of us down here can look strait and see a masses of short jews among smaller clusters of taller jews :)<br /><br />in any case, even if height is determined solely by genetics, we still have the girth problem (and its associated consequences) and just general build/physique.Abba's Rantingshttp://abbasrantings.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-79991757074875409062010-11-16T08:57:00.439-05:002010-11-16T08:57:00.439-05:00Yesterday was a bit crazy for me and I didn't ...Yesterday was a bit crazy for me and I didn't get to join in the conversation--where to begin? In no specific order,<br /><br />JS,<br />The argument about taking vitamin supplements is not a new one. While the counter argument that we get everything we need from what we eat is used, and not correctly as a general case, it's not the main point that those who argue against the supplements use. The main point is that with more scientific study and research available every day we've found that there is a lot more in food than just the well-known vitamins and minerals, and that these lesser known substances in the food are themselves necessary for a variety of bodily functions or that they contribute to body functioning. The supplements don't have these things in them, so food is better than supplements to get everything we need.<br /><br />School Lunches,<br />Definitely going to be a topic of a future posting<br /><br />Abba and Al,<br />While nutrition and diet can effect changes in eventual height, particularly if the diet is very poor during times of intense growth, such as puberty for boys, it's genetics that determines height. And no, as an across the board factual statement, all yeshiva kids are not smaller than students in the public schools by virtue of being yeshiva kids. What you can say is that two parents with "short" genes are likely to produce short children, and their children will carry that "short" gene and pass it on as well. <br /><br />My husband is 6'3-1/2" tall. Our son is 6'1" tall and our daughters are 5"9-1/2" and 5'8." I'm 5'7." I had a 6'5" tall bil, married to a 5'9" sister--not a short kid among the boys or girls, with one nephew topping over 6'5. My brother, at 5'11" has sons also at the 6' mark. All this, by the way, with a 5'2" mom. My first cousins? With only a couple of exceptions, all way above average height. My husband's family? Again, with only a couple of exceptions, they are all tall. Are we an anomaly? Nope, we have "tall" genes. And yes, everyone went to yeshiva and is "frum." <br /><br />Tesyaa,<br />I'm doing a research unit with my students in school and your posted list is an example of what I tell them to avoid. In some ways the Internet is a great wasteland. If you are going to use material from the Internet to support an argument, make sure to fact check before you use that material. Just by virtue of the fact that your list got posted in a comment here some reader might look at that list and make decisions based on the information in that list. What if they missed the comment that said that the info in the list was wrong?<br /><br />What irony in someone frum's trusting the government? Where they know what they are doing I trust them. Otherwise it's a case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.<br /><br />All,<br />If calcium consumption is a problem re no milk drunk with dinner because dinner is fleishigs, give the kids a glass of milk or a fortified yoghurt when they arrive home from school and before dinner. Make sure they are getting at least 1 cup of milk with the breakfast they eat at home<br /><br />As I mentioned in the posting, first find out what nutritional elements you need and in what amounts and then figure out your menus.ProfKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17954446826821665314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-19911759038740680462010-11-15T19:35:03.990-05:002010-11-15T19:35:03.990-05:00TESYAA:
the OU dropped DE because they don't ...TESYAA:<br /><br />the OU dropped DE because they don't think the average frum jew can be trusted to understand the implications of parve vs. dairy equipment vs. real dairy. (and the OU is in direct competition with the heimish brands, so i don't think they did it to get people to buy the heimish brands.)<br /><br />i've called the OU's kashruth division a number of times to inquire about whether a product is really DE or D (e.g., ludens cough drops, soy milk, etc.). they'll tell you right away. can also email them.<br /><br />it's funny because i just had this converstion friday night with our hostess who refused to believe that oreas really aren't dairy (they're actually just DE)Abba's Rantingshttp://abbasrantings.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-49959551286598463892010-11-15T19:23:59.139-05:002010-11-15T19:23:59.139-05:00AL:
"seriously, compare the kids at the loca...AL:<br /><br />"seriously, compare the kids at the local Yeshiva to the local secular Jewish kids in the neighborhood, there is a WORLD of difference"<br /><br />yes, but<br /><br />a) then compare the local secular kids to the local black kids. you think they're the same? (and btw, in general the black kids in my son's class tower over him--even though we've always been pretty careful with his diet--as well as the other (secular) jewish kids)<br /><br />b) of course i wouldn't deny there is a difference in the physiques of the different groups, but i don't believe that the typical inner city black kid is growing up on a worse diet than the typical frum kid. if i had to guess, i'd say the difference is due more to levels (and types) of physical activity. (related, i recently wondered if so many frum kids get pt/ot because they aren't active enough: http://abbasrantings.blogspot.com/2010/10/ora-crawlswalks-david-melts-away.htmlAbba's Rantingshttp://abbasrantings.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-32310930823183550582010-11-15T19:12:24.280-05:002010-11-15T19:12:24.280-05:00Abba, I was going to bring up the OU/(no)DE proble...Abba, I was going to bring up the OU/(no)DE problem. I think it's a racket to get people to buy heimishe brand sandwich cookies instead of Oreos - which we do, alas, when we're eating them on Shabbos. I'm told you can call the OU and they will tell you at any point in time whether an item actually is milchik, but that's a lot of work.<br /><br />But seriously, I let my milk-allergic son eat Oreos with an OUD, because I go by ingredients and allergen information listed on the package, not by the OU designation. (National brands are the safest when there are allergy issues; their allergen information is much more likely to be correct than small or regional brands, including heimishe brands).tesyaanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-73424256607480880922010-11-15T18:59:24.515-05:002010-11-15T18:59:24.515-05:00Abba's Ranting,
We're blaming frumkeit, n...Abba's Ranting,<br /><br />We're blaming frumkeit, nobody is blaming Kashrut. Don't pretend that there is THAT much of an overlap... unless you can find me a ruling in the Gemara that says Shabbat requires eating enough oil and sodium to stop your heart. :)<br /><br />Regarding Yeshiva kids... seriously, compare the kids at the local Yeshiva to the local secular Jewish kids in the neighborhood, there is a WORLD of difference.Miami Alhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02977503720972852329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-38445451554701343902010-11-15T18:50:48.888-05:002010-11-15T18:50:48.888-05:00as long as we're blaming frumkeit and kashrus ...as long as we're blaming frumkeit and kashrus for calcium deficiency in frum jews, let's also blame the OU for doing away with the DE designation. now there are all these parve OU products that are marked as dairy, misleading people into thinking they're consuming more calcium than they really are :)<br /><br />but seriously, one of my pet peeves with my son's school was that the lunch plan was mandatory even though because of allergies my son couldn't eat half the week and the other half they generally served food i didn't want him eating. i went to the kitchen a few times to check for stuff he is allergic to and i was horrified by what i saw. of course the complaints fell on deaf ears.Abba's Rantingshttp://abbasrantings.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.com