tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post5229790231927464310..comments2024-02-23T04:39:49.329-05:00Comments on Conversations in Klal: We, the Perfect PeopleProfKhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17954446826821665314noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-80072188417006121542008-10-30T18:18:00.000-04:002008-10-30T18:18:00.000-04:00want to hear about sexual abuse in the frum commun...want to hear about sexual abuse in the frum community? discuss it?<BR/><BR/>read my blog...can't put it all up here!little sheephttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01002942154389258717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-41818659278047546642008-09-14T13:17:00.000-04:002008-09-14T13:17:00.000-04:00oh and also they put me in remedial classes in ele...oh and also they put me in remedial classes in elementary school because I was so bored with the material that I didn't bother doing homework or paying attention in class, and would secretly read books I had hidden in my desk. So it must be that I was 'slow'. <BR/><BR/>Even when they have remedial classes, they just send anyone there, even if they don't need to be (I didn't receive any psychological testing before being sent over there, and years later when I finally did get psychological testing everything said I was off the charts above-average). And now I'm nearly done with a phd at an ivy league university.Abandoning Edenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12696116071749613265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-15505482650423192452008-09-14T13:11:00.000-04:002008-09-14T13:11:00.000-04:00I saw this all the time growing up- people with pr...I saw this all the time growing up- people with problems being thrown away instead of helped by the frum community. A girl has a cutting problem (cutting her arms but not trying to kill herself)...solution? Expel her from school! A girl caught smoking a joint at the school shabbaton...expulsion! Another girl speaks up about being date raped...expulsion! All those girls ended up in public school, since no other jewish school would take them. <BR/><BR/>They tried to expel me for suffering from depression. No joke. My parents worked out a deal whereas I went to therapy and pretended to be happy when in school. My brother also was forced into therapy and on anti depressants (we didnt' go to the same school, but this seems to be a common solution) because he fought back when a dude picked on him for a year or more (he finally had enough and punched the dude...). Oh and he was also expelled a year later anyway, when my parents threatened to go the police because this other dude kept beating the crap out of him. Talking to outside authorities? Expulsion!<BR/><BR/>Anyone who doesn't fit the mold exactly or who doesn't hide their problems is thrown out like yesterday's trash. No wonder there's so many like myself who are "off the derech."Abandoning Edenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12696116071749613265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-34586212452813723922008-09-14T11:54:00.000-04:002008-09-14T11:54:00.000-04:00anonymous 2:05pm,Perhaps we need to bolster self-i...anonymous 2:05pm,<BR/>Perhaps we need to bolster self-image by handling these issues well ourselves. myomitzvos isn't such an abstract concept, and one doesn't need to be/feel better than anyone/anything in order to be a true/right path for people. I realize you were probably being a little sarcastic. <BR/><BR/>I loved this piece and think it should be reposted today. <BR/><BR/>Perfection is the commitment to keep learning, keep trying, keep getting better and doing one's best, whatever that best may be.<BR/><BR/>All the phone #s for ALL services/ hotlines, etc. should be given out to EVERYONE. If there's no AA for the frum community, there should be one, and all the special/ dedicated services should offer the same anonymity that AA meetings do. <BR/><BR/>Bad for shidduchim? I haven't met anyone who is perfect. If people didn't get married if they weren't perfect, no one would marry anyone, ever. People should stop marrying their relatives. It's so tragic seeing a mother who spends 26.5/7 at the hospital with her child and learning that she married her cousin. It's called genetic illness for a reason. We are no longer largely nomadic; there is no excuse for inbreeding.s(b.)https://www.blogger.com/profile/08633383652906692253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-43095688314786910802008-07-30T23:58:00.000-04:002008-07-30T23:58:00.000-04:00js, excellent comments!!!Markjs, excellent comments!!!<BR/><BR/>MarkAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-44531499960292284332008-07-29T14:05:00.000-04:002008-07-29T14:05:00.000-04:00I've struggled with the same observation for a whi...I've struggled with the same observation for a while, and can't help but feel that it's directly related to another - that the frum community seems to bolster its self-image by insisting that it is better than all other religions / communities.<BR/><BR/>How can we admit to the problems you mention if we need to believe and teach our children that "we" are better than the goyim/assimilated Jews/reform/conservative/modern orthodox because only their children have drug problems and only their couples get divorced and only their parents abuse their children?<BR/><BR/>Since we are frum and study torah, clearly we are above all that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-57547600398350683892008-07-29T03:39:00.000-04:002008-07-29T03:39:00.000-04:00Good post ProfK.I also enjoyed JS's remarks.Good post ProfK.<BR/>I also enjoyed JS's remarks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-78561624313488283882008-07-28T20:31:00.000-04:002008-07-28T20:31:00.000-04:00Fantastic.I started to comment, then it just got c...Fantastic.<BR/><BR/>I started to comment, then it just got carried away... my response is <A HREF="http://nad-ned.blogspot.com/2008/07/imperfect-is-normal.html" REL="nofollow">here.</A><BR/><BR/>(And let's get going on the practical solutions part - Who's up for it out there?)<BR/><BR/>ALNThe Five + of Ushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14673803854699604232noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-75270621033216611542008-07-28T15:16:00.000-04:002008-07-28T15:16:00.000-04:00As far as I am concerned, throw the book at them, ...<I>As far as I am concerned, throw the book at them, throw every book at them, hell, throw anything you can find at them and put them away where they cannot harm us any longer. And that goes for their "protectors" as well. </I><BR/><BR/>I agree. Excellent post.SaraKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08053908720926177402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-36550285115103773902008-07-28T10:44:00.000-04:002008-07-28T10:44:00.000-04:00Another aspect of this "perfection" of klal is thi...Another aspect of this "perfection" of klal is this:<BR/><BR/>A "goy" is seen a bit tipsy at a wedding or outside a bar. He's a bum and a drunk. A "yid" is seen a bit tipsy at a wedding or at shul. He's misameach chattan v'kallah and partaking of the simcha of shabbat/yom tov.<BR/><BR/>A "goy" is unemployed and doesn't have a college degree let alone a high school degree and collects welfare. He's a bum and a drag on society. A "yid"? He's a kollelnik and is doing Hashem's work.<BR/><BR/>A "goy" has 7-8 or more children living in a small house. The parents don't spend enough time with each child. He's a bad parent, should use birth conrol, should control his kids. A "yid"? It's a mitzvah to have a large family.<BR/><BR/>A "goy" is at a restaurant with his family and they're misbehaving and carrying on. They're rude, inconsiderate and have no manners. A "yid"? It's a kosher restaurant, the kids are just being kids.<BR/><BR/>A "goy" who runs a store provides bad customer service. He's a jerk and should be run out of business. A "yid"? It's a kosher establishment, things are a bit crazy, be more patient.<BR/><BR/>I could go on and on and on. I think you get the point.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-75618453131697089662008-07-28T10:34:00.000-04:002008-07-28T10:34:00.000-04:00My brother-in-law had problems reading when he was...My brother-in-law had problems reading when he was younger. The yeshiva didn't have any resources set up for him and as far as they were concerned it was just too bad. His mother sat with him every single night for hours teaching him and helping him - doing what the yeshiva should have been doing. Now he is a voracious reader (reading many several hundred page books a week) and is doing wonderfully in medical school. If the yeshiva had its way and his mother wasn't so caring who knows what might have been.<BR/><BR/>As a contrast, my wife's cousin (who is not from a religious family) was born with dyslexia. The public schools came to immediate assistance. He now has a PhD in learning disabilities and works to help others with dyslexia and other learning disorders.<BR/><BR/>Isn't being "perfect" coming to the aid of others?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-87199955710910944352008-07-28T10:29:00.000-04:002008-07-28T10:29:00.000-04:00“Publicity is justly commended as a remedy for soc...“Publicity is justly commended as a remedy for social and industrial diseases. Sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants; electric light the most efficient policeman.” <BR/><BR/>--Justice Louis BrandeisDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04391023891253673160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-36954039924658008702008-07-28T08:42:00.000-04:002008-07-28T08:42:00.000-04:00Unless you have grown up with an alcoholic in your...Unless you have grown up with an alcoholic in your family you have no idea how much the frum cvommunity tries to hide this problem. Drinking too much on a shabbos or holiday is not a sign of alcoholism, it's just being happy. The boys who routinely get smashed at weddings aren't having alcohol problems, they're just being happy for their friends. Maybe if we had a more realistic picture of how people get to be alcoholics and what the warning signs are my kids would have had a grandfather around instead of a grave to go to. If there was a frum program around when my dad was living it was a closely guarded secret.<BR/><BR/>A co-worker who went to public school mentioned that they got all kinds of information on what the signs of alcoholism are and what to do if you think someone you know is an alcoholic. In our yeshiva we got nothing. Don';t kid yourself that frum people can't be drunks. Maybe if we hadn't been frum my dad might still be living.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-18420485101483582202008-07-28T08:01:00.000-04:002008-07-28T08:01:00.000-04:00I understand that you are trying to set out all th...I understand that you are trying to set out all the different types of problems that might and do affect some frum people. And you are correct that as a general rule frum people are uncomfortable discussing what they see as tsuris. <BR/><BR/>But one of the problems is that we lump every problem together under the heading of Major Problem. We see them as a group where I think we would do better to see them as separate. Drug abuse is its own problem and should not be lumped together with learning disabilities. ADHD is not bipolarism. <BR/><BR/>Perhaps if we made things more manageable for ourselves by looking at one thing at a time we would come up with a better way of dealing with things.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com