tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post4400428173046601029..comments2024-02-23T04:39:49.329-05:00Comments on Conversations in Klal: Fixing the System--Another StepProfKhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17954446826821665314noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-63360140628526768342011-01-19T15:07:10.436-05:002011-01-19T15:07:10.436-05:00JS,
At least in the boonies, many people are seem...JS,<br /><br />At least in the boonies, many people are seemingly under the impression that this is actually Jewish tradition, and this is customary.<br /><br />The revisionism is complete.Miami Alhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02977503720972852329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-80687841193245029772011-01-19T14:22:04.251-05:002011-01-19T14:22:04.251-05:00"What stuns me are the happily married couple..."What stuns me are the happily married couples that met their spouses like normal people, that then choose to throw in with the crazies an dthis "shidduch" system... while the word shidduch is old and traditional, the current system is ANYTHING but."<br /><br />Oh, come on, Al, you're not that naive. The story of modern-day frumkeit is doing things frummer for your children than you ever did them - it's the Jewish equivalent to the American value of trying to do better for your children.<br /><br />Your mother didn't wear a sheitel or cover her hair outside shul, so you cover your hair all the time. You grew up with only one sink, so you have two sinks, two dishwashers, and even a pareve set of dishes and silverware. Your mother wore pants and short sleeve shirts, so you only wear black and white dresses and skirts and 7 layers in the summer. You went to public school, your kids only go to cheder and public school kids are all off the derech animals. You get the idea.JSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-59318181012911845502011-01-19T13:51:12.483-05:002011-01-19T13:51:12.483-05:00In sales, there is a term, it's called a laydo...In sales, there is a term, it's called a laydown. It's the prospect that you call, and with no convincing, signs up, whips out their credit card, and is a customer.<br /><br />Everyone closes the lay downs. The lazy salesman only closes lay downs, and gets out of the business because the costs of prospecting is too high. The over-eager salesman goes out of business, because he works every prospect over and over for a sale, and some customers are not worthwhile. The successful salesman knowns how to take the lay downs, and the slightly harder sales, and when to cut bait, they maximize their income.<br /><br />The Shidduch Process follows the same model. A few hacks that don't do the work can take lay downs. The rich skinny girl, the rich good learner, those are easy, pairing them up with anyone is pretty easy.<br /><br />Sure one could specialize in "hard luck" cases, but why bother. There is no incentive. Someone pitched a sliding scale of compensation, more for older "girls" and everyone went ape shit. However, if you want the process to work, align the incentives.<br /><br />I knew my wife was the person for me NOT on a contrived "date," but when we met up with some long time friends of mine at a bar, and she just slid into the conversation like she'd known them for 7 years as well. She just fit in my life. She knew that I was the one when I met her grandmother, who quickly warmed to me and I felt like part of the family.<br /><br />None of that would become apparent in the Shidduch scene.<br /><br />What stuns me are the happily married couples that met their spouses like normal people, that then choose to throw in with the crazies an dthis "shidduch" system... while the word shidduch is old and traditional, the current system is ANYTHING but.Miami Alhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02977503720972852329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-73603624715020864562011-01-19T12:23:07.693-05:002011-01-19T12:23:07.693-05:00I think the problem with the shidduch system is th...I think the problem with the shidduch system is that it's not meant to create happy marriages or to create ideal pairings or even to help people who are maximally compatible get together - it's meant to create marriages, plain and simple.<br /><br />The goal is not nearly as lofty as you (and most other people) would like. The goal isn't a soulmate, it's a mate. To switch to your analogy, the goal is simply find a pair of shoes or a car, not the best pair of shoes or car for you.<br /><br />And to take the analogy further, the shadchan is the pushy salesman who is simply trying to get you to make a purchase - they just want to make a sale. They'll work with you to the extent necessary to make that sale - they'll go to the back room and find out if they have the shoe in a size 8 - but, if you're too picky or too fussy, they lose interest. It's not worth their time anymore.<br /><br />If you don't "get" what the shidduch system is all about, you're going to get left behind. As you rightly point out, it's impossible to get to know someone in 6 dates or fewer and to summarize what you're looking for in a paragraph is absurd (is anyone out there NOT looking for someone nice, with good middos, and who is a baal chesed? No, I want the mean-spirited, cranky person who is always in a bad mood and is too demanding). If you don't settle quickly, you'll be left out in the cold.<br /><br />Marry young to someone that isn't half bad, or don't marry at all - at least as far as the shidduch system is concerned. The goal is marriage as young as possible and kids as quickly as possible so you are locked in to the frum lifestyle. Otherwise, don't bother.JSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-25611142127034873322011-01-19T11:05:39.503-05:002011-01-19T11:05:39.503-05:00Beautiful piece and right on target, ProfK! Severa...Beautiful piece and right on target, ProfK! Several years ago, I ran a kiruv camp overseas. We had a staff of about 35 all-star madrichim and madrichot from all across the world who worked closely together for several months. The atmosphere was entirely aboveboard, supervised, and kosher and the camp was a tremendous success (and yes, a few shidduchim did come out of it). In the years since, I've had a few friends who have gone out with some of the madrichot and have called to ask me about them. I can't begin to tell you how remarkably different their impressions of the girls were after a few dates from my impressions. The fact is that people are usually not themselves on dates, and the only way to really get to know someone is in real world environments interacting with other people and encountering real world situations...kind of the way the rest of your marriage will be spent. Great piece!<br /><br /><a href="http://asformeandbeiti.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">Primum Non Nocere: Taking Care of Business</a>Primum Non Nocerehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01928564781704168333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-7038768438895700542011-01-19T09:04:35.317-05:002011-01-19T09:04:35.317-05:00I agree that more socialization is necessary so ou...I agree that more socialization is necessary so our kids can get a realistic picture of what the opposite sex is like and who is available for marriage. But you really need to read the latest posting on Orthonomics. Some idiot of a rabbi believes that the answer to all of our society's problems is to lower the marriage age to 15 and marry off our girls at that age. As long as lunatics with smicha after their name are the ones that are going to be listened to there's no chance of putting your practical advice into play.Raenoreply@blogger.com