tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post4330113840126404360..comments2024-02-23T04:39:49.329-05:00Comments on Conversations in Klal: Easy ShmeezyProfKhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17954446826821665314noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-33871319632266526232009-09-13T18:15:19.987-04:002009-09-13T18:15:19.987-04:00A Heartbroken Former Teacher,
The firm the Harvar...A Heartbroken Former Teacher,<br /><br />The firm the Harvard Law grad works for has a program of charitable donations; that is, they give funds or matching funds to organizations suggested by their employees. This particular employee worked out with the company that instead of funds being donated the company would "donate" a few hours where he would be teaching the poli sci/civics. He does so twice a week but only for two hours in total.<br /><br />When I spoke with him he admitted that this was a "partner's perk" and most likely would not be granted to an associate. Given that partnership now takes about 10 years to be proferred by the big firms you have a way to go until you might get this perk. Still, it's something to shoot for.ProfKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17954446826821665314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-71088302066808664802009-09-06T01:42:15.947-04:002009-09-06T01:42:15.947-04:00You ask whether any of us work at jobs where you c...You ask whether any of us work at jobs where you can't just go to the bathroom. I'm betting that most of the non-teachers reading this don't work at such jobs- but ALL of your students DO, unless YOU decide otherwise!<br /><br />My point is that I know that teaching is a tough job (my husband is a teacher, my daughter is a teacher, and I have several more teachers in the family.) On the other hand, there are far too many teachers who have rules that have nothing to do with the needs of the students, or even with the best way to handle classroom management. And, in most schools, that's fine. Teachers can make some pretty arbitrary rules, and the administration will back them (unless a parent with money screams.)<br /><br />There are a LOT of teachers ranging from good to great, and they deserve all the respect they get and then some. But, I can tell you from personal experience that too many of them blow it (in terms of getting some respect and understanding) by defending teachers that range from barely adequate to indefensible, or trying to defend indefensible actions.<br /><br />Of course, that tendency is not unique to teachers. That same "circle the wagons" mentality has affected many professions very negatively, as well. At the end of the day, being honest about the duds in a profession is far more likely to garner respect for the profession than the reverse.observernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-14527447227068276222009-09-05T22:55:54.955-04:002009-09-05T22:55:54.955-04:00ProfK- who is this guy in the firm who teaches par...ProfK- who is this guy in the firm who teaches part-time? I am a law student who desperately wanted to teach. I was going to teach (despite graduating with honors from a top school), and I was great at it too. <br /><br />First, no one wanted me because I wasn't 'experienced'. Then a school hired me, but the administration and the parents treated me poorly, and as much as I loved the kids, and teaching was important enough to me that I would have sacrificed myself to continue, I simply could NOT sacrifice the needs and well-being of my family- certainly not for the peanuts I was getting paid! I had my son later in the year, and realized that I wouldn't be getting any tuition breaks when the time came. My husband was making good money but a salary and a half (because yes, what I was getting paid was not qualified to be called a living wage) just wasn't cutting it.<br /><br />So here I am, a third year law student at an Ivy. I already know where I will be working following graduation, and I will be making a ton of money. We can afford tuition for the two kids we have as well as for the future kids we hope to have. But my heart is broken. I don't hate my firm, but I don't love it the way I loved teaching. I am dying to go back to teaching- but thanks to a lot of the things mentioned in this post, the field has lost another talented, loving, engaging teacher to the reality of more enticing, lucrative options. <br /><br />If the Harvard guy really exists, I guess there is hope for me. Can you tell me more about him? I would be happy to give you my email if you'd prefer not to divulge online...A Heartbroken Former Teachernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-54727818499417617922009-09-04T15:16:38.646-04:002009-09-04T15:16:38.646-04:00I think EFink's comment was a bit overbroad, b...I think EFink's comment was a bit overbroad, but it does happen all too often that people go into teaching because they fall into it rather than because they're passionate and driven.<br /><br />Most of the best teachers I had K-12 only became teachers as a form of "semi-retirement" if you will. They had long successful careers elsewhere and then, later in life, turned to teaching.<br /><br />So, EFink is right (again, to a small extent) that these same great teachers would never have went straight into teaching. Some of these teachers told me outright that if it wasn't for the fact that they didn't really need the money at this point in their life they would never be doing it - the pay is just too crummy for someone with their talents and abilities.<br /><br />It's important to note though that while the people may be qualified, a whole mess of jerks enter the high-paying professions solely because of money and not because of passion. They may be competent, but they're not fun to be around either (maybe not a perfect analogy, but it is the other side of the coin when it comes to salary).JSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-2436083813947640492009-09-04T15:06:00.931-04:002009-09-04T15:06:00.931-04:00E-Fink,
Youch! Time to retire that old saying abou...E-Fink,<br />Youch! Time to retire that old saying about those who can, do, and those who can't teach, and certainly time to retire the attitude. You want examples of people who could have done something else (and perhaps did for a while) but who are teachers instead? Without pointing elsewhere, how about little ol' me, Phi Beta Kappa, highest honors college graduate, not an ed major, and yes, valedictorian of my graduate school graduating class. I'm sure in blazes not teaching because I couldn't or can't do anything else--I happen to love being in the classroom. Or the MIT honors PhD in Physics who taught college and upon his recent retirement is teaching boys yeshiva high school? Or the JD with high honors from Columbia Law who is teaching yeshiva elementary school? Or the Harvard Law grad who is a partner in a major law firm and still teaches political science and civics in a yeshiva high school part time because "our kids deserve the best. Yes, there are more examples--these are just culled from among my friends.ProfKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17954446826821665314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-52264278514324755872009-09-04T13:55:06.915-04:002009-09-04T13:55:06.915-04:00Often it only takes a few good teachers in a mix o...Often it only takes a few good teachers in a mix of mediocre ones to inspire a child.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-81063560939390415652009-09-04T13:53:04.154-04:002009-09-04T13:53:04.154-04:00Fink: I do know someone. A very bright young wom...Fink: I do know someone. A very bright young woman who graduated summa from an ivy league just want back to get her master so she could become a high school history teacher. She has the advantage of coming from a wealthy family and has no college loans and probably a nice trust fund, but she could have chosen almost any career and is going into teaching.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-33733013054185354892009-09-04T12:02:52.305-04:002009-09-04T12:02:52.305-04:00Interesting post.
Another factor is the pay. Sinc...Interesting post.<br /><br />Another factor is the pay. Since salaries are low, the pool of potential teachers shrinks. Ambitious, hard working young adults that wish to pursue more lucrative careers weaken the talent pool of good teachers.<br /><br />Of the folks who do become teachers, some are only teaching because they are not qualified to do anything else. Thus, you do get a lot of teachers who would are just not "successful people" -this is bad.<br /><br />Think about it. Do you ever hear of a really talented young adult who is planning on going into teaching?E. Finkhttp://finkorswim.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-59358360834720433102009-09-04T11:48:46.327-04:002009-09-04T11:48:46.327-04:00Lots of professions have bad raps because of a few...Lots of professions have bad raps because of a few bad apples.<br /><br />It's not uncommon to hear that all lawyers are crooks or that all doctors think they're God.<br /><br />Or, just plain old stereotypes:<br />I have friends who introduce themselves as being an engineer and are immediately asked about a lightbulb that won't turn on or a computer problem. Let alone these people aren't electricians or involved in IT.<br /><br />I think the only real difference is that teachers are paid a lot less, generally, and thus are more bitter. After all, a lawyer earning 6 figures probably couldn't care less if people think he's a crook.<br /><br />As for PR, I suppose Israel should shut down its Hasbarah Offices as it shouldn't have to justify its existence or that its "right."JSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-76598923093120928112009-09-04T11:38:11.663-04:002009-09-04T11:38:11.663-04:00Real and JS, I don't think anyone is saying th...Real and JS, I don't think anyone is saying that ALL teachers are perfect and terrific. Yes, something needs to be done and now about getting the abusers out of the system (more of a problem in the yeshivas then in the public schools) and about getting really incompetent teachers out of the system (should be easier in the yeshiva system which mostly has no unions). But it's that teachers as a group get a really bad rap, based on only a few who aren't stellar.<br /><br />We don't diss all doctors or accountants or any other profession based on a bad experience we had with one practitioner. There are other professions that don't work standard 9-5 workdays or even standard work years, and we don't give them as much grief as we do teachers.<br /><br />Yes, teachers could do a better job of PR, but why should they have to? Saying they need to do that PR is like telling them that they have to justify to the public what they are doing.Raenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-72064576141432581172009-09-04T10:16:43.762-04:002009-09-04T10:16:43.762-04:00I appreciate this rant. At the same time, I think...I appreciate this rant. At the same time, I think you need to understand why teachers get such a bad rap. The primary reason is that nearly all of what you described applies to dedicated, hard-working, caring teachers. I think each of us have had lousy teachers who simply did not care, were cruel or unkind, and didn't have any enthusiasm or energy. Maybe they were once good teachers and just burned out - I don't know. But, those lousy teachers give all the rest a bad name. <br /><br />Furthermore, by the very nature of how schools are set up, a person, over his/her education career, encounters many tens of teachers (especially in a yeshiva with its dual curriculum). Thus, one encounters a large number of lousy teachers. From K through 12 I had about 10 good teachers and of those about 2-3 were great as compared to about 20 or so mediocre or lousy teachers. I'm sure I had more good teachers than most because I was "top tracks" and it was well-known that the school gave the better teachers to the top tracks. Many more of my good teachers were in grades 9-12 than in grades K-8. In college, and now in grad school, nearly every teacher I had was good, if not great. It's an interesting trend and I'm not sure if money is the decisive factor.<br /><br />Also, I think the classroom does a lot of kids a disservice. Many kids simply don't learn well when they're younger in a large, impersonal classroom. I didn't have these problems, but there are many kids from grade school and high school who were in the "low tracks" and who were not given attention by teachers who are now doctors, lawyers, working in hedge funds, pursuing advanced degrees, etc. I'm not saying every parent who says, "My child is a genius!" is right, but there's clearly something wrong with the system and parents have a right to complain.<br /><br />I also think teachers could do a better job of PR as many people do have the erroneous impression that it's all play and no work.JSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-17080087992670494342009-09-04T09:58:51.485-04:002009-09-04T09:58:51.485-04:00Coming from a family full of teachers (mother, sis...Coming from a family full of teachers (mother, sisters, brothers-in-law, aunts, uncles, cousins) all of the above goes without saying for me...and yes, I too was determined never to be a teacher as a result of seeing what they go through.<br /><br />On the other hand, there are issues that I see red about, such as abusive rebbeim (physically or verbally) or plain old unfair teachers who have often effectively hidden behind the "I'm a rebbi/teacher, and I work my tail off..." fig leaf. <br /><br />So for me, teachers in general absolutely deserve our abiding respect, but let's not be blinded to the damage that some of them can cause as a result.Real-Time Jewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04114685633776011051noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-39510028503358694322009-09-04T09:19:53.814-04:002009-09-04T09:19:53.814-04:00The company I work for (in the science field) is v...The company I work for (in the science field) is very into community relations and service. We are all asked to volunteer our time to various projects involving the local schools in our area, and get release time for them.<br /><br />Two years ago I volunteered to teach a period of chemistry at a local yeshiva. I figured it would be an easy thing to do. That 45 minutes a day, 4 times a week felt like 100 times that long. I got a real lesson in what a teacher's life is like. I can't imagine how the teachers who teach longer hours don't go crazy in the process. And yes the hours at home were lots more then the hours actually in school.<br /><br />One thing this did do for me. I'm a lot more respectful of my kids' teachers now.Dovnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-10354924963169697132009-09-04T08:29:04.823-04:002009-09-04T08:29:04.823-04:00I am the son of a teacher, the brother of another ...I am the son of a teacher, the brother of another teacher, and occasionally the husband of a third (let me try that last one again: I'm always her husband, but she's only occasionally a teacher). After watching them, I have sworn by everything I hold sacred (and by many things that I do not) that I will never, ever, ever be a school teacher. Even a teacher of only average competence spends hours making and grading tests, revising lesson plans, speaking to parents, and keeping up with developments in his/her field - all in his/her "off-hours." Thanks but no thanks.<br /><br />Of course, owing to G-d's remarkably sadistic sense of humor, I already know where my career is going to inevitably lead me down the line... :)efrexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-2311278684397559702009-09-04T08:14:09.248-04:002009-09-04T08:14:09.248-04:00I hear you. It alwyas makes my blood boil to hear...I hear you. It alwyas makes my blood boil to hear teachers attacked on talk radio. I'm not a teacher, but have several family members who did or still do teach in public schools. They maybe more dedicated than the average, but they put in at least two to three hours every night and 3 or more hours on sundays doing lesson plans, grading homework, report cards, writing ieps, etc. and now, no child left behind has created even more paper work and headaches, not to mention all the conferences, committee meetings, parent meetings and continuing education and redoing plan s everytime the board changes the curriculum or the texts or adopts some new language or math system. It is definitely not the cushy 8-3 job that some people think. Good teachers are leaving in droves (or at least they were before the reccession) and retiring early.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-65045255639669770962009-09-04T07:52:22.876-04:002009-09-04T07:52:22.876-04:00A post I can relate to! So tired of the teachers ...A post I can relate to! So tired of the teachers do nothing comments.Anon is safernoreply@blogger.com