tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post1752021585222055813..comments2024-02-23T04:39:49.329-05:00Comments on Conversations in Klal: Respect, Reverence and IdolatryProfKhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17954446826821665314noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-58915742033981778582010-09-02T21:51:05.619-04:002010-09-02T21:51:05.619-04:00I personally will never forget the time my husband...I personally will never forget the time my husband and I went to consult his rav about a sholom bayis issue. The advice I got was absolutely horrific and, if i listened, would bring significant destruction to my marriage. Unfortunately, my story is not an isolated incident. I have heard from many friends similar stories where rabbeim thought that their knowledge of Torah was enough to dole out marriage advice and much of that advice was pure garbage. <br /><br />I am sure that there are many rabbeim are very good at it, but I suspect they have a natural gift for these sort of things and most likely supplemented their knowledge with other books on the subject.Miriamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-78522509352630011302010-09-02T16:58:56.670-04:002010-09-02T16:58:56.670-04:00JS - "A good doctor doesn't just prescrib...JS - <i>"A good doctor doesn't just prescribe some medicine after hearing a person has a headache. He asks about possible allergies, other symptoms, medical history, etc."</i><br /><br />LOZ - <i>i can tell you from my personal and professional experience that this is not always the case.</i><br /><br />LOZ, by definition, a doctor that doesn't take at least a rudimentary medical history before advising or prescribing anything <b>isn't good!</b>Marknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-68951640367672368872010-09-02T03:47:49.498-04:002010-09-02T03:47:49.498-04:00someone i know rushed to a visiting mekubal to fin...someone i know rushed to a visiting mekubal to find out if her kid should get physical therapy. this boggled my mind.<br /><br />"We were taught that one speaks to people considerably older than ourselves in a more "serious" fashion than we would if speaking to someone our own age."<br /><br />what do you think about kids calling older people (e.g., parents' friends) by their first names without any honorific?<br /><br />JS:<br /><br />"A good doctor doesn't just prescribe some medicine after hearing a person has a headache. He asks about possible allergies, other symptoms, medical history, etc."<br /><br />i can tell you from my personal and professional experience that this is not always the case.LoZnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-3703544410201174402010-09-01T17:02:05.327-04:002010-09-01T17:02:05.327-04:00Oh yes do I agree with you JS (and with your post ...Oh yes do I agree with you JS (and with your post also profk)that too many rabbanim believe the hype about themselves and paskin where they shouldn't be paskining.Some of them have an attitude that starts out that they are right no matter what so everyone else has to be wrong. The facts don't matter.<br /><br />I was once in a group where a rabbi approached a member of the group who is a high level expert in the electrical engineering field. He wasn't at all ashamed to be speaking in front of the rest of us as he made a request of this expert. He told the man that he had written a psak dealing with a matter of electrical use on shabbos/yom tov and he wanted to know what the science supposedly (his word) says so he'll know how to word the psak against the practice. He had his mind all made up before he even asked an expert a question.<br /><br />Someone in the group respectfully pointed out that making up your mind before you have the facts won't lead to a valid psak. He waved his hands in dismissal and added "Goyish hasogos require you to paskin against them you so you know everything you need to know once you know it's a secular/science matter."<br /><br />I don't use this particular rabbi to paskin for me and no one else in that group does either. But we all know people who believe the sun rises and sets on this man. To his followers he is never wrong. We none of us bother pointing out to them that this is impossible because as a human being he is going to make mistakes sometimes. Try even the mildest criticism of him, try even bringing up that other rabbanim paskin differently and they'll rip up at you and call you a kofer.<br /><br />And here I always thought that tochachah is a requirement for us.Allennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-87931056037396526742010-09-01T10:30:48.508-04:002010-09-01T10:30:48.508-04:00Very good post.
However, you do realize in certai...Very good post.<br /><br />However, you do realize in certain circles they would view this post as heresy, right?<br /><br />"We recognize this as truth in the secular world, but things break down when we move from the secular to the religious."<br /><br />Truer words were never spoken. You throw a Yiddish word on something and suddenly all the normal rules disappear. You ask someone how to make a good SALARY and they'll tell you about college and graduate school and networking and putting in long hours, etc. You ask someone about PARNOSAH and they'll tell you about how all depends on Hashem and we need to pray for assistance and it's decided on Rosh Hashanna, etc. Isn't there some intersection between SALARY and PARNOSAH? Aren't they the same? English and Yiddish aside, shouldn't a frum Jew be doing BOTH?<br /><br />In terms of seeking out a rav, I have to point out an age-old saying that a smart person knows what he doesn't know. A smart person knows what questions to ask, what critical information needs to be acquired to adequately answer a question. A good doctor doesn't just prescribe some medicine after hearing a person has a headache. He asks about possible allergies, other symptoms, medical history, etc. What I see all too often with many rabbeim is either a refusal to answer even the simplest of questions (they need to ask their rav) or a willingness to answer anything and everything because they believe they know it all.<br /><br />Anybody off the street can tell a person with a headache to take some Aspirin, but the smart person knows what else to ask and what else to think about when a person says their head hurts.<br /><br />The idolizing of rabbeim has gone to many of their heads, I fear, such that they believe the hype and paskin on matters they aren't qualified in and in matters that may not even be in the realm of halacha per se.JSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-24332052272665153442010-09-01T10:26:44.252-04:002010-09-01T10:26:44.252-04:00Wonderfully written. I agree 100%.
The only time ...Wonderfully written. I agree 100%.<br /><br />The only time I feel it appropriate to run to a rav to ask questions outside of a halachic or hashkafic decision is if I have a personal relationship with that rav and he knows me and my particular situation. For instance, if I had a problem dealing with a family member, I would be more likely to ask a family counselling specialist. But I might ask a rav if he were a family friend and a mentor. To ask a random rav who doesn't know me at all because he might have some "magical" answer because of his torah knowlege is just silly.<br /><br />See my related post here: http://evolvingjew.wordpress.com/2008/07/28/gedolim/Philohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02077376696343791699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-20486358342646749182010-09-01T10:18:02.950-04:002010-09-01T10:18:02.950-04:00Excellent post.
Just to make clear- there is no &...Excellent post.<br /><br />Just to make clear- there is no 'hierarchy', except in those places where a rav is appointed the posek 'above' other local rabbanim, or where there is a Chief Rabbi. There is no formal structure that says Rav Herschel Schachter is 'higher' than your LOR. We recognize, based on rational considerations as you've noted, his greater ability or accomplishment, and we therefore *choose* to defer to him. But there is no hierarchy compelling us to do so, and we could choose to ignore the 'greater' rav and hold by our little LOR for our own reasons. Additionally, the 'great posek' has no authority to impose his view on a local rav. The appointed LOR is still the 'master of the place' and responsible to make his own final decisions.<br /><br />This, of course, just supports even more your contention that we need to desperately (my modifier) de-deify much of our leadership. Fortunately, there are many more sane people who think like you than we realize.Mordechai Y. Scherhttp://www.kolberamah.orgnoreply@blogger.com