tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post364609115975350673..comments2024-02-23T04:39:49.329-05:00Comments on Conversations in Klal: Mentchlichkeit and Household HelpProfKhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17954446826821665314noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-87378083946768296652008-08-29T14:04:00.000-04:002008-08-29T14:04:00.000-04:00Thanks for the tips. I just started having a clea...Thanks for the tips. I just started having a cleaning lady...will keep all of your pointers in mind!Gilahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13246089571573457394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-27749519358463689422008-08-29T03:00:00.000-04:002008-08-29T03:00:00.000-04:00PROFK:so much concern for your domestic help? you ...PROFK:<BR/><BR/>so much concern for your domestic help? you must either be from OOT or you've been infected by your liberal academic colleagues. <BR/><BR/>(before anyone jumps on me, i am just being saracastic)<BR/><BR/>BAS MELECH:<BR/><BR/>"Seeing frum (usually heimish/chaseedish) people talk down to hired workers."<BR/><BR/>i did a five-week internship on ave j. this past spring. this gave me the (unfortunate) opportunity to frequent the local eateries. while there i got to see the disgusting the way patrons, especially the boys (from the whole hashkafic range), talked to the workers. "hey amigo, i need a slice and fries pronto." ugh. these workers have a better work ethic than many yeshiva kids will ever have <A HREF="http://agmk.blogspot.com/2008/08/do-we-need-illegal-immigrants.html" REL="nofollow"><BR/>(i mentioned this at the end of my post here)<BR/></A>Lion of Zionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10342299133387602141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-50675391240480772412008-08-28T16:52:00.000-04:002008-08-28T16:52:00.000-04:00Bas Melech - I'm wondering how much of that is a r...Bas Melech - I'm wondering how much of that is a rascism issue, or at least connected to an especially American tendency for people to "talk down," or excessively loudly, to those whose mother tongue is not the national language.<BR/><BR/>Of course there's always the vicious cycle of talking down to someone to devalue him, which then "justifies" paying him less or mistreating him further, thus he "deserves" to be talked down to, etc.A Living Nadneydahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14365370597831368062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-33813019184434647722008-08-28T11:00:00.000-04:002008-08-28T11:00:00.000-04:00You know what really grosses me out? Seeing frum (...You know what really grosses me out? Seeing frum (usually heimish/chaseedish) people talk down to hired workers. I'm not saying they all do it, but when I do see it, it bothers me so much that it hurts! The way they demand things from people... yuck. What a chillul Hashem.Bas~Melechhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01511197551248863790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-37322908811943156852008-08-28T08:44:00.000-04:002008-08-28T08:44:00.000-04:00I don't think any of us know exactly how much time...I don't think any of us know exactly how much time it takes to do all the cleaning jobs in our houses. I sort of used to know how long it took to clean a bathroom fully but when I actually timed myself one day I was off by a lot. I think this is one of the problems when people have cleaning help. They assume the help can get everything done in a few hours because they don't know how much time each job takes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-79918546996080857902008-08-27T15:05:00.000-04:002008-08-27T15:05:00.000-04:00Mike is right that it is a broad socieatal problem...Mike is right that it is a broad socieatal problem the way household help of all kinds is treated but that doesn't excuse the way a lot of frum Jews treat their help. I was in a friend's house when her 5 year old said to the cleaning woman "The bell rang. Go put the laundry into the dryer." The mother was embarrassed and told the girl that she needed to say please when making a request. The little girl looked at her mother very puzzled. "Why mommy? You don't when you talk to Anya." If nothing else then being a mentch is a matter of chinuch l'bonim.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-84617966922117541772008-08-27T13:37:00.000-04:002008-08-27T13:37:00.000-04:00Concernedjewgirl,Re the Jewish holidays it all dep...Concernedjewgirl,<BR/>Re the Jewish holidays it all depends on how they fall during the week. If, as has happened a few times, my day is going to be yom tov over the course of four weeks then I try to get a different day during the week for the holiday time period. If that does not always work out then, because I have friends who use her services as well, we split up a day, each getting 4 hours, but pay her for 6.<BR/><BR/>We sort of do it this way: if she cancels a day and doesn't offer another one in its stead, she doesn't get paid. If I cancel a day and she can't give me another one in its stead she gets paid anyway.ProfKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17954446826821665314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-54076610666447736852008-08-27T11:39:00.000-04:002008-08-27T11:39:00.000-04:00I agree 150%!My cleaning help is incredible. I pay...I agree 150%!<BR/><BR/>My cleaning help is incredible. I pay more for that, and I know it. I try to treat her as if she were my friend doing me a favor, not the other way around. She is human, and is making a living therefore instead of pushing her down, I support her price increases and try to treat her with as much respect and decency as I would a friend.<BR/><BR/>Thank you for the tip on holidays. My cleaning help started right before Pesach so I haven't gone through the holiday seasons with her yet. Do you do something for jewish holidays as well?concernedjewgirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10361462141869154634noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-61680844745567938802008-08-27T10:04:00.000-04:002008-08-27T10:04:00.000-04:00The problem of treating household help like subhum...The problem of treating household help like subhumans spreads far beyond the frum community. And not only to cleaning help but, in places where they are employed, to the nannies. My wife knew many in our area when our children were younger. She could never understand how anyone with a small fraction of a brain could mistreat the person to whom they entrusted the care of their child. We took in one on weekends in the winter when the family would go to their second home, leaving the nanny in their house with the heat turned off. And what kind of message do you give your (as I recall about 4 year old) child when the live-in nanny entrusted with her care is not trusted to use the treadmill in the basement+.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-31728815365031422452008-08-27T09:48:00.000-04:002008-08-27T09:48:00.000-04:00My mom never had cleaning help but she was a stay ...My mom never had cleaning help but she was a stay at home mom unlike me with a part time job, graduate school and young kids. My husband and I agreed on cleaning help twice a month but had no idea on how to organize what she needed to do. My aunt was a tremendous help here. Her cleaning help is also long term and she sat me down and taught me how to organize the schedule. She looked over my house with me and we decided which jobs could be managed by us and which were going to be for the help. She came over the first time we had the cleaning help to make sure that everything ran smoothly. Thanks to my aunt I don't have the problems with help that many of my friends do.<BR/><BR/>And yes the first thing my aunt told me was that you treat your cleaning help just like they are a human being, because they are. And she also told me that under no circumstances was I to ever refer to my help as the goyta. Her feeling is that if you use that word you have somehow made the person less then a real human being.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-40707567650435123102008-08-27T09:20:00.000-04:002008-08-27T09:20:00.000-04:00My wife works full time and we have cleaning help ...My wife works full time and we have cleaning help in the house. For us it is a necessity. Our present help has been working for us for over 5 years. Like you we are fair in what we ask for and in what we provide her. Our children have also been taught that the cleaning help is not a replacement for their efforts to keep their things in order. When one child once left a room in complete disorder, with clothing on the floor, dirty plates on the desk etc., my wife told the cleaning help not to clean the room. His was the only room not done and he quickly got the idea that the cleaning help is not his replacement but only an adjunct. <BR/><BR/>Not only does she not steal from us but when we were broken into a few years ago she was invaluable in coming up with a list of missing items for the police and insurance company. She caught a number of missing things that we had not noticed until she pointed them out.<BR/><BR/>But I think you got it right when you talk about the contempt with which some people view their help. How does this in any way illustrate Jewish values?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com