tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post340905419818721978..comments2024-02-23T04:39:49.329-05:00Comments on Conversations in Klal: A Kosher ComplaintProfKhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17954446826821665314noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-65739239574698807332008-04-11T16:40:00.000-04:002008-04-11T16:40:00.000-04:00This is my life on a regular basis. I avoid the k...This is my life on a regular basis. I avoid the kosher stores whenever possible. Less irritating to get in the car and drive to a "real" supermarket. But you have to toughen up or they will walk all over you when you do shop in these stores. had to go into one for some Pesach things this morning. I should have worn body armor.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-61300504615983472942008-04-10T09:45:00.000-04:002008-04-10T09:45:00.000-04:00My husband was standing in line at our little Kosh...My husband was standing in line at our little Kosher store for almost an hour yesterday, as the store people tried to figure out who had gotten there first and who needed what from the truck out back etc., but everyone was polite about it. In fact, one woman tried to buy two large stacks of American cheese, and they told her that her husband had bought three the day before, so she probably didn't actually want to buy any. She put it back. And they sent my husband home with one of his items unpaid for, because the person who knew what to charge him for it wasn't there. They made a note on the wall, and he'll pay it next time.<BR/><BR/>Sometimes (Okay, almost always, the one exception being when driving to NY.) I'm so glad to not live in Brooklyn.miriamphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14339767447913960853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-66925305197303936822008-04-09T22:22:00.000-04:002008-04-09T22:22:00.000-04:00At one time I thought frum meant finer, better man...At one time I thought frum meant finer, better manners, more honesty, more refinement (it still does among some, may they be blessed). Nowadays with the ascent of the heimish-biheimish, at times it has come to stand for coarseness and being ethically-challenged.<BR/><BR/>Help !<BR/><BR/>"We spend so much time worrying about whether our children will have fine midos....."<BR/><BR/>Maybe the people you met at the store don't.<BR/><BR/>"Brooklyn"<BR/><BR/>There is great variation between different parts of that borough. Some parts retain a measure of civility.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-75544574613231356422008-04-09T22:13:00.000-04:002008-04-09T22:13:00.000-04:00I find that my practice developing a "teacher Look...I find that my practice developing a "teacher Look" for the classroom serves me well in public, too. You just have to be assertive -- if the parents aren't teaching them, someone should try...Bas~Melechhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01511197551248863790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-64935267760919882352008-04-09T12:40:00.000-04:002008-04-09T12:40:00.000-04:00Concernedjewgirl,Jews are supposed to give reproof...Concernedjewgirl,<BR/>Jews are supposed to give reproof to fellow Jews who are doing something wrong. But one of the things that the Rambam mentions when he talks about this tochechah is Will the reproof be seen for what it is--a sincere effort to improve something that needs improving--or will it be looked at incorrectly? He concludes that if you are certain that the reproof will have no positive result but will only cause a problem, then you don't offer the reproof. My experience in the Brooklyn stores has lead me to believe that any reproof I would have offered would have caused a tumult but would not have changed the offending behavior.<BR/><BR/>I'm hardly shy in standing up for myself, but I pick my battles. <BR/><BR/>G,<BR/>In case you missed it, I AM from the West, Oregon originally. And re Staten Island's being a part of New York City, that is not by choice. We tried to secede but the state screwed us around. When people ask me where I am from I always answer "Staten Island," not New York City.ProfKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17954446826821665314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-56978681310872840862008-04-09T12:28:00.000-04:002008-04-09T12:28:00.000-04:00We don't live in Brooklyn.-----------Ah yes, but y...We don't live in Brooklyn.<BR/>-----------<BR/>Ah yes, but you <I>do</I> still live in New York :-)<BR/><BR/>"Go West, young man, and grow up with the country."Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08512231582715592098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-66688384362202034662008-04-09T12:17:00.000-04:002008-04-09T12:17:00.000-04:00I do not live in Brooklyn, yet I have seen this be...I do not live in Brooklyn, yet I have seen this behavior in other cities. Not as bad as Brooklyn. I agree with you that this behavior is ridiculous and not to be tolerated. I unlike you do not walk away quietly. I start to reply quietly but work my way up if I get tested. Why is her time more valuable then yours? Do you not have any responsibilities in other than to stand there all day till somebody has enough time to see you in order to check you out? <BR/> I’m wondering why you didn’t (in a nice, polite, yet firm voice) ask her if these were the midos that she likes to teach her children. It is not fair to you that you left. You spent time picking out items that you need. Now, you have to go back to a store and start from scratch. It’s a waste of your time. Why not stand up for yourself? Maybe a scene is the only thing that ‘these’ particular people will respond to? Unless you are yelling and pushing back they don’t notice you. So you should suffer because of it? <BR/> I don’t think that standing up for yourself and your rights is necessarily stooping down to ‘their’ level. I believe that if you let people act like this without saying anything then they will continue to do so. I am not convinced that walking away quietly is always a good lesson. I doubt they even noticed that you walked out of the store because of them.concernedjewgirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10361462141869154634noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-33245313925308104712008-04-09T11:45:00.000-04:002008-04-09T11:45:00.000-04:00;-(Severe problem.The heimish-biheimish behavior i...;-(<BR/><BR/>Severe problem.<BR/><BR/>The heimish-biheimish behavior is way out of hand in some places.<BR/><BR/>And there are consequences. They may not be immediate or may not be too loud to ignore at first, but they are very serious nevertheless. Whether increasing cynicism, good people slipping away quietly or otherwise, the cost is high. <BR/><BR/>After a while these heimish-biheimish types will be left with one another to step on.<BR/><BR/>And that is leaving out the spiritual side, of thinking how Hashem, so to speak, looks upon such scenes. They definitely don't look kindly on such behavior upstairs. Someday the bill will become due, and there will be a big price to pay if the offenders don't change their ways.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com