tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post1625110700964324038..comments2024-02-23T04:39:49.329-05:00Comments on Conversations in Klal: The Real, The Imagined, The CensoredProfKhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17954446826821665314noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-24781520906620510692009-09-13T20:01:28.676-04:002009-09-13T20:01:28.676-04:00I've nominated you for the Kreativ Blogger awa...I've nominated you for the <a href="http://guesswhoscoming2dinner.blogspot.com/2009/09/im-kreativ-blogger.html" rel="nofollow">Kreativ Blogger</a> award.<br />I enjoy your style and your blog very much.G6https://www.blogger.com/profile/15932781801654313054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-3196364035391277062009-09-11T19:42:45.241-04:002009-09-11T19:42:45.241-04:00You are making an assumption that the original ver...You are making an assumption that the original version you learned in grade school was correct.<br /><br />There are only two primary sources for the first Thanksgiving. I'm including both here in modern English.<br /><br />Edward Winslow:<br /><i>"Our harvest being gotten in, our governor sent four men on fowling, that so we might after a special manner rejoice together after we had gathered the fruit of our labors. They four in one day killed as much fowl as, with a little help beside, served the company almost a week. At which time, among other recreations, we exercised our arms, many of the Indians coming amongst us, and among the rest their greatest king Massasoit, with some ninety men, whom for three days we entertained and feasted, and they went out and killed five deer, which they brought to the plantation and bestowed upon our governor, and upon the captain, and others. And although it be not always so plentiful as it was at this time with us, yet by the goodness of God, we are so far from want that we often wish you partakers of our plenty."</i><br /><br />William Bradford:<br /><i>"They began now to gather in the small harvest they had, and to fit up their houses and dwellings against winter, being all well recovered in health and strength and had all things in good plenty. For as some were thus employed in affairs abroad, others were exercised in fishing, about cod and bass and other fish, of which they took good store, of which every family had their portion. All the summer there was no want; and now began to come in store of fowl, as winter approached, of which this place did abound when they came first (but afterward decreased by degrees). And besides waterfowl there was great store of wild turkeys, of which they took many, besides venison, etc. Besides, they had about a peck of meal a week to a person, or now since harvest, Indian corn to that proportion. Which made many afterwards write so largely of their plenty here to their friends in England, which were not feigned but true reports."</i>Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04391023891253673160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-80043820543755768872009-09-11T17:36:43.860-04:002009-09-11T17:36:43.860-04:00The Canadian term is "First Nations." I ...The Canadian term is "First Nations." I like that a lot better. It accurately reflects the facts that:<br />(1) these people were not native, but they were the first to succeed in establishing self-governing groups in these territories; and<br />(2) there are many tribes that were each a distinct recognized nation.<br /><br />As for the "they were trying to kill them," that's a complicated story, with a lot of mutual killing efforts (and some cooperative efforts, which makes sense given that, as noted above, these are multiple nations that had various alliances and treaties).Offwingernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-78142976410745079102009-09-11T16:26:26.446-04:002009-09-11T16:26:26.446-04:00Offwinger:
It is not PC to involve God. So the bo...Offwinger:<br /><br />It is not PC to involve God. So the book took Him out. It's even worse because many of the Native Americans (apologies to ProfK) tried to kill them!<br /><br />ProfK:<br /><br />So what should we call the people who were here before us?E. Finkhttp://finkorswim.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-31458214824198937672009-09-11T15:29:02.574-04:002009-09-11T15:29:02.574-04:00I do so hate that title "Native Americans.&qu...I do so hate that title "Native Americans." For one thing, if you are born here then you are, by definition, a "native" American. The term that used to be preferred, and still is in use by many, is "indigenous people(s)." Of course, if you look at one of the common definitions for indigenous you will find "Originating and living or occurring naturally in an area or environment." That "occurring naturally" is where the trouble begins. Whole slews of those "Native Americans" arrived here from other geographic locations. They didn't originate here. And yes, if you read unsanitized historical accounts, you'll find many mentions of one "Native" group ousting another here before them to gain the territory. So it's okay if "they" do it but not if "we" do it?ProfKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17954446826821665314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-8281704543892678032009-09-11T14:06:40.498-04:002009-09-11T14:06:40.498-04:00That revision doesn't even make any sense. The...That revision doesn't even make any sense. The Native Americans were also very religious and would have been thanking God (or various Gods - depending on the specifics) too. <br /><br />I guess that was a "politically correct" revision that if you're going to ignore the cultural details of one group of people (i.e., Pilgrims = religious Christians with funny hats and shoes), then you ought to ignore the cultural details of other groups of people (i.e., Native tribes = religious non-Christians with different funny hats and shoes).<br /><br />Now I'm curious what reason that high school textbook gave for the Pilgrims coming to America in the first place...Offwingernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2096776708897685863.post-34075256480725878962009-09-11T13:24:55.175-04:002009-09-11T13:24:55.175-04:00I remember noticing phenomena when I was in High S...I remember noticing phenomena when I was in High School.<br /><br />When I was in 3rd - 4th grade we learned (from our textbook) that Thanksgiving was originally celebrated by the Pilgrims as a way of giving thanks to <b>God</b> for their bounty.<br /><br />By the time I was in High School the textbook taught us that Thanksgiving was originally celebrated as a way of giving thanks to the <b>Native Americans</b> for helping the Pilgrims with their harvest.<br /><br />Revisionist history.E. Finkhttp://finkorswim.comnoreply@blogger.com